Quick hotfix-like suggestions to improve leveling experience on normal levels.

  • Hi,

    I'd like to suggest some changes to quest rewards values and monster levels in order to streamline the leveling experience for people under lvl 90.
    We all know how nice and clean leveling looks like from lvl 1 all the way to level 55/56 where all of the main quests give you about 80-95% of your level so that you only have to grind about 20-5% and that is not always the case since the exp from mobs allows you to not even grind on some levels. However, after that period if you continue on with Act 2-1, if you do all of the quests up to the level 57 roadblock (because you will be level 56 without grinding and doing LoD) you will gain a whopping 6% of exp needed to reach level 57. And it gets worse, percentage wise.

    Now i know some people are going to say "jUsT dO lOD 4Head" to which i will say: you are not wrong, however should LoD be the only way to reach the level 85/88/90 breakpoints?
    My suggestion is as follows: change the numbers.
    All quests from act 2-1 to act 5-1 included should gain an increase in experience rewarded to the point where it rewards at least half of the level (50%+) that quest is on. (So that LoD doesn't magically die and so that it's not just quest based but rather a variety leveling system)
    This of course applies to quest rewards for a level, so if you have level 56 quest you gain just 50% from all of the steps, not 2x50% so you can just zoom to 57. Or the amount can be higher, however I feel like 50% is the bare minimum.
    For act 5-1 given the abundance of quests in that act and the structure of it, I'd adjust them so that if you do all of the quests for level 80, for example, you would have 50% of exp needed to gain level 81, or perhaps lower, but no less than at least 25% (so people will engage in the questing - give them a reason!!!)
    All of the above requires nothing but simple changes in numbers, all you need is a calculator and a table of exp needed to level, which is available on fansites such as NosApki, and for sure in Entwell's own database. Thus it can be applied as a hotfix, does not require waiting for act 69 to drop..
    Valhalla questline, which is a sidequest, gives more exp than act 2/3 and that is just for any of the lvl 80+ ones. Please consider buffing the quests, it is just sad seeing this content so abandoned.

    Another thing of note is the level of monsters in LoD, please treat this as a separate suggestion:

    Right now the levels of monsters in Land of Death are as follows:

    Revenant Skeleton Warrior (rebs) - 75

    Bone Drake - 77

    Fire Drake - 80
    Death Warrior - 80
    Hell Knight - 82
    Flying Fire Devil (DH)
    - 85

    Since LoD is realistically the only zone to gain experience from level 55 until level 90 (unless you go act 6 and then 7 which sure you can but you'd need good gear or multiacc for a full buff)
    there is no reason for mob levels to be so low. Due to the mechanic which punishes players with reduced xp
    (-10% for every level after the 5th that you have over the monster, if you are lvl 88 you'd gain 90% of exp from Hell Knight in this case, not to mention 20% of exp from Fire Drakes and Death Warriors)
    it makes sense to increase those levels so that players can level up faster without changing the values of the monsters' exp reward itself.
    My suggestion for the changes would be as follows, however any increase would be welcome:

    Revenant Skeleton Warrior (rebs) - 77

    Bone Drake - 81

    Fire Drake - 85

    Death Warrior - 85

    Hell Knight - 87
    Flying Fire Devil (DH)
    - 90 (i know killing dh is for perfect gear people, but if they want to go at it why not.)

    This would allow for people to smoothly transition from level 55 all the way to 90 if they wanted, making level 90 gear in demand since it is still decent stat wise. Perhaps maybe some people would go for 92 before venturing to gain their champion levels.

    If both ideas are applied, i think it would revitalize the game as it would expand the pool of players available for higher lvl content, so maybe instead of 1/2 act 6/7 raid groups players would have 5-10 to choose from :)
    And it would expand the pool of potential nosmall tattoo protection scrolls/runes buyers as this is for levels 85 and up. (it boosts your profits GF/Entwell:!:)
    All in all this is a fairly simple fix that will improve the leveling experience and allow more players to experience the content at higher levels. What is the point of Act 8/9/10 if maybe a total of 100 players per server are ever going to complete the quests/raids etc.
    I think it is high time to fix at least some of the game in order to make it more playable and in turn expand the playerbase, even if it is just bringing in the old/retired players.

  • I don't think entwell will bring such a retroactive update, why would they do that honestly?

    Most of the players has already reached the max level. If someone just started the game, she/he can do lod as we all did.

    I agree with your thoughts and wish this happened long before time, not anymore.

    Btw, she/he will get enough experience from levelling, there is 159 level waiting to be reach lol

  • I agree with both.

  • While i agree that a lot of players have reached 99+Whatever over the years, it is still a minority of characters that are made on the server, yes i am aware that ppl often make at least 4-6 alts (or 14 if you just want to solo farm everything), but even so a good chunk of players that would join right now would drop the game after lvl 56, because you either get into a family that has veteran players that actually care about new ones enough to help them lod (especially if you are an archer - WK is from 65) or you could, in theory, join a family of players that are of similar level to you (so lets say about lvl 55-65) and struggle with them until you hit the levels when you start doing some serious damage etc.
    But the problem right now is that there isn't many players at these "middle" levels, a.k.a. about 55-70, to form families like that, either that or they just join a family with veterans, with a bargaining chip such as a WK in CC or w/e else works to skip the level 75+ requirements of some fams.

    With the proposed changes, even in a bad/slow lod fam you could get to 65 relatively quickly(or even without one - just kill a lot of mobs in the forest, AoT etc.) and it would permit newcomers to experience up to 4 SP cards instead of just 3. And since SP4 is not a bad choice for any class really, it could make these players stay longer, maybe even push them to get to level 85/90 where current content/endgame resides (that and a couple of clvls since you need c10 for act 7).
    With the level changes players would be able to stay in lod until 90, as it was clearly meant to be, and unlock lvl 90 gear that would allow them for an easier time leveling in act 6, instead of getting boosted by already established players or just steamrolling with the help of fullbuff and 1000 divine pots. I know that full buff will still be valuable, however there is a difference in damage that cannot be unnoticed when comparing class weapons from 85 to 90. Mage is the special child that can just lmaoskip at 85 thanks to Yertirand wand, which has stats that can rival the 92 wand, but that also requires a decent Archmage and shells to make it work. Swordie and Archer need 88 for the honourable set, and sure you can skip that, however at 85 the only way you can exp is with a higher lvl party member, or when you are very stacked on gear/pots - you are rich already.
    Then there is MA who practically needs to get to 90 before getting any reasonable gear (as they are just screwed by the system where they cannot get clvl 25 fist from raid - good one) they'd have to get to clvl 30 to unlock their first weapons that would actually do something.

    With these changes if you wanted to change the class you are playing, it would make it a little bit less punishing since you'd get to clvls faster - but it would not make gaining them faster, therefore no impact on BoA etc., even better - there would be more people willing to buy BoA and other stuff that would help them level faster! It's just free real estate!
    And also: 1st suggestion would make people do quests because exp reward of that caliber does not go unnoticed. Without it, this will be abandoned content forevermore. I don't wanna judge the writing quality, but imo better this than just empty grinding to 85/90 from lvl 56 onwards.
    I feel like this would fit in nicely with recent(couple of years already but w/e) efforts to facilitate the grind such as the 1-80 buff that gives you +100% xp from kills. I think it would be a win-win situation - veterans gain new people to play with that are not awfully behind,so they do not have to waste time boosting them, and newbies can actually climb the levels without feeling like its a 9-5 job to get anywhere. The grind would still be there, however it wouldn't feel as terrible and it would be a lot less - as it is before lvl 56.

    The post was edited 2 times, last by Rembo ().

  • Perfectly summed up.

    The game WAS designed to level by questing when it came out in Korea. Gameforge decided to go the other way -> repetetive grinding.

    This has always been and I'm afraid always will be the problem with the game. It's not fun and never was. And I'm not only talking about LoD but about the whole cLvl concept aswell. The majority of people ralize that it's not worth their time and some people think it is.

    Just take a look at another very popular MMORPG made by Blizzard - everytime a new expansion comes out they make it so you can reach the late game point of the previous one extremely fast. NT is trying to do that by increasing %s by a few, which doesn't really do anything. Thus, the hours of long grinding in order to be able to play some of the new content in the game just keep increasing and increasing and people give up...



  • This is why I am suggesting what i am suggesting.

    Since, as far as i know, Gameforge is the ONLY publisher of Nostale in the world(!!!!), because the korean server was shutdown, they have the power to change the game. It is not, by any means impossible, to fix at least this part of the experience, as i have demonstrated that this would take maybe one day's worth of work to calculate, if need be i think anyone in the community could volunteer to do the calculations for the exp values.
    As for the mob levels change - this is just to fix the inconsistency, since you have a penalty when being over the level of monster, and there is not a place except LoD right now where you'd want to level all the way until 90.
    As I've mentioned, since Gameforge version is probably the only official one at the moment, they hold enough leverage to not only suggest stuff to Entwell, but even make them change stuff, especially if these are as trivial as just some numbers in the database - no code is even touched here, only values.

    If the game was designed to make you level by questing maybe its time to go back to the roots, and make Nostale Classic systems in the current version. Land of Death is nothing more than a small bandaid on a gushing wound that spans across the entire torso of this game. And you can do that with the simple changes i've suggested, you could even go as far as to make the quests give you simillar percentages as previous levels did (1-55) so about 80 to 95% of a level. This should not require any significant changes to the code, only to the values of experience.

    This is a compromise since you'd still have to grind Clvl, however you could experience more than 5 acts of content and get through them with the help of quests and only a little bit of LoD/other leveling.

    I also think it is the right thing to do for Gameforge, as they have done multiple jump-start events in Elsword for example, where they start your character at a high level, so you can enjoy the newer content instantly!
    I don't think that jump events are what should be done in case of Nostale, but streamlining the leveling until 90 with the proposed solutions would make a great positive impact on the so called audience retention.
    If people want to grind for levels there are countless other mmos, action rpgs that do that better, while not offering too much quest content. Nostale has 7 acts of story content, with acts 2-5.1 skipped by the majority of the players. It would be best to change this, and probably the only incentive that can do that is worthwhile experience rewards.

  • Complain they might have, however if you are not against the idea, why not support it? :)
    If everyone did that, instead of being jaded and without any hope, maybe then one such suggestion would make it through. Or even more than one, and then it would surely be on their minds, to say the least.
    Even if my suggestion does not get forwarded, I think that if enough people engage in the discussion, it will be brought to the attention of people at Gameforge, and consequently Entwell.
    Change does not start by doing nothing.. even complaining can help, but not in the form of personal attacks but rather constructive criticism.
    (That being said i do not accuse anyone of personal attacks or anything just stating the obvious)