The Last Post Wins V10

  • You just prove that seers are not broken with this statement.

    yes, extra funny if you actually hit the enemy with it, mostly only during stun, rest of times your opponent(s) is(are) constantly moving.

    And then.

    in conclusion both seer and scout shouldnt exist or other sp cards should have combo skills cuz its unfair when you consider dps at lv90+

    You whine they are broken and op and should be deleted.

    and im like


    Like really now, 2 of its strongest skills are skillshots, this sp dosen't have any stuns, all sp's have a away to escape skillshot via teleport charge or whatever.

    Why not blame the unfairly and broken shells instead, like those that give a high chance of stun ?

    You called me again, drunk in your Benz
    Driving home under the influence
    You scared me to death, but I'm wasting my breath
    'Cause you only listen to your 'ucking friends

  • Are you for real? xd there would be a lot of difference if you divide this skill's stats to 3 hits. Because now it still counts as one hit. If it was 3 consecutive skills, damage would be calculated for each skill separately, thus more dmg, since elemental and phys dmg increases in skills are not that significant on c25+

    what are u even saying? you don't seem to get what my point was. damage calculation for the skill wouldn't change, i just meant as if triple slash worked like scout's reload or seer's blade changer where you would be able to use again after you've just used it. and i think it wouldn't make warrior practically any stronger just because you can spam it. unlike if you were able to do that for shoulder charge for example, that would be too strong.


    point i was making is, this "reload" feature in of itself isn't inherently broken, it just depends on the skill that has it.

    so swordman isn't excluded from the "op cards" list just because of that as you were trying to insinuate. monk is a top tier pvp sp and just as op as seer and scout.

  • you don't seem to get what my point was. damage calculation for the skill wouldn't change

    lmao ok you dont understand how damage calculation works.

    with this logic, triple slash from warrior is calculated using TRIPLED basic atk value, which is not true.

    just meant as if triple slash worked like scout's reload or seer's blade changer where you would be able to use again after you've just used it.

    yes thats what I mean.

    How do you think you get so high damage from 300 or smthn atk/ele power skills in their combos? because equipment gives much bigger boost than what is in skill description.

    monk is a top tier pvp sp and just as op as seer and scout.

    sorry to burst your bubble. get to c50 on german server, get eq and we'll see how its as op as seer and scout is.

    It clearly isnt. Obviously, maybe at lv80 monk can tank pretty good, but after lv95 its just a punchbag unless you have an op armour.

    FireBow tell us how monk is good vs scout at c28 XD

  • I am not entirely sure how Seer ult works on damage. I think the damage is based on the clones(sorta like jaja minis or destroyer mines). It would be nice if that sort of information was brought into the game. I still dont know how much damage destroyer mines or claymore are supposed to do.


    Meanwhile im still waiting for this thread to go inactive so i can claim victory, why did you have to stop spamming the other thread

  • lmao ok you dont understand how damage calculation works.

    with this logic, triple slash from warrior is calculated using TRIPLED basic atk value, which is not true.

    i understand how damage calculation works. you're the one who doesn't understand what i'm trying to say. maybe triple slash wasn't the best example to use in terms of clarity, but i do think it's the best example if it were to be understood perfectly, every other skill i can think of would greatly benefit the card and make it stronger overall.


    i don't know what else to say to make it clearer. but anyway a "reload" feature isn't the issue here, and we don't need to slap it on swordie sps to make them "equally op". there are many other ways to balance sps without changing how their skills work and without changing the playstyle of it


    yes thats what I mean.

    How do you think you get so high damage from 300 or smthn atk/ele power skills in their combos? because equipment gives much bigger boost than what is in skill description.

    i get what you're saying but the way you're saying it is wrong. you don't get "much bigger boost than what is in the skill description".. if you do then it would be a bug. it's more of a "the skill numbers isn't the only factor in damage calculation".

    (inb4 he doesn't get what im saying and goes with "U dOnT uNdErStAnD dAmAgE" again)


    sorry to burst your bubble. get to c50 on german server, get eq and we'll see how its as op as seer and scout is.

    It clearly isnt. Obviously, maybe at lv80 monk can tank pretty good, but after lv95 its just a punchbag unless you have an op armour.

    FireBow tell us how monk is good vs scout at c28 XD

    well i can't deny what you're saying, but i don't believe firebow is the best person to ask here. he gets one shotted by jaja (his own words) and i remember you making fun of his armor for being weak so...

    I still dont know how much damage destroyer mines or claymore are supposed to do.

    nothing. that's how much they're supposed to do.

  • i get what you're saying but the way you're saying it is wrong. you don't get "much bigger boost than what is in the skill description".. if you do then it would be a bug. it's more of a "the skill numbers isn't the only factor in damage calculation".

    (inb4 he doesn't get what im saying and goes with "U dOnT uNdErStAnD dAmAgE" again)

    BRUH

    r u blind?

    equipment gives much bigger boost than what is in skill description

    kertos boots give 100 elemental energy


    Division of the skill properties by 3 (into 3 different skills) with the result of an equal total damage would be possible only if equipment had NO effect on skills whatsoever.


    1 skill attack is never equal to 3 skill attacks in total damage. DPS is higher when you have combo skills.

    I understand how damage calculation works. you're the one who doesn't understand what i'm trying to say. maybe triple slash wasn't the best example to use in terms of clarity, but i do think it's the best example if it were to be understood perfectly, every other skill i can think of would greatly benefit the card and make it stronger overall.

    We were talking about how swordies dont have speedy combos like seers and scouts, only monk has 3 skills in his combos at MAX. You said that even if we divided triple slash into 3 skills it wouldnt make much difference,

    if you mean "multi-usage skill" (dunno what else to call it), then yeah. but is that feature really needed? i mean it's nice, but not the most broken thing in of itself, it depends on the skill. (example: if warrior triple slash had this, i don't think it would make much difference. but if shoulder charge did, now that would be really broken)

    although it's fundamentally wrong, because 1) skills make more dmg than normal hit and combos take less time than separate normal hits 2) a lot of attack power comes from equipment on higher level. If you counted how many seconds does it take for scout to perform a full combo attack, and then did normal attacks within the same period of time, total damage WOULDNT be equal.

    Same works with your triple slash if it was to be divided into a series of 3 combo attacks. Most likely it would be 3 combo attacks = 2 normal hits (timewise) and 3 combo attacks = 4 normal hits (damagewise)

    The post was edited 9 times, last by Jekyll ().

  • Each time i refresh this thread i see Jekyll post getting edited one more time.

    Things are surely getting heated here.

    You called me again, drunk in your Benz
    Driving home under the influence
    You scared me to death, but I'm wasting my breath
    'Cause you only listen to your 'ucking friends

  • Each time i refresh this thread i see Jekyll post getting edited one more time.

    Things are surely getting heated here.

    Im just making it clearer, because if I dont, then gandalof will be like wHaT aRe YoU sAyInG gO LeArN rEaSoNiNG


    also im tired after work, i make typos and other mistakes

  • Division of the skill properties by 3 (into 3 different skills) with the result of an equal total damage would be possible only if equipment had NO effect on skills whatsoever.

    and why are you "dividing" a skill again?

    1 skill attack is never equal to 3 skill attacks in total damage. DPS is higher when you have combo skills.

    assuming everything else is equal, if the "1 skill attack" has the same exact numbers as the "3 skill attacks" in total. they will be both do the same damage in total.


    your circles around the weapon effects and skill descriptions make no sense. using a skill with [100 ranged attack] 3 times will yield the same total damage as a skill with [300 ranged attack] one time. simple maths really 3x1=1x3.

    We were talking about how swordies dont have speedy combos like seers and scouts, only monk has 3 skills in his combos at MAX.

    yeah, and i was saying while it is indeed a good feature to have and does greatly improve the majority of skills.. it is not the only way to make an sp stronger.

    You said that even if we divided triple slash into 3 skills it wouldnt make much difference

    i never said anything about "dividing". as i said, you misunderstood what i mean.

    lthough it's fundamentally wrong, because 1) skills make more dmg than normal hit

    well duh. skills have higher numbers than a basic attack so they do more damage.. who would've thought?!!

    and combos take less time than separate normal hits

    that isn't a rule. they could make these "reload" skills take longer if they wanted.

    but sure, the current 2 "reload" skills of scout and seer are faster than their basic attacks. my question is, why are you comparing those 2 again?

    2) a lot of attack power comes from equipment on higher level.

    no ship sherlock, what's next?.. you're gonna tell me that a lot of elemental power comes from fairies?

    If you counted how many seconds does it take for scout to perform a full combo attack, and then did normal attacks within the same period of time, total damage WOULDNT be equal.

    and once again, why are u comparing those 2?

    just fyi, i never claimed that basic attacks does more damage than a particular skill or a combo. but for some reason you're refuting it.



    Each time i refresh this thread i see Jekyll post getting edited one more time.

    Things are surely getting heated here.

    ikr.. jesus.. 9 times, that might legit be the most edited post on the forum *citation needed*

  • When a skill has 300 ranged damage, it isnt the same as dealing 300% of your ranged damage. So it isnt as simple as 1x3=3x1.


    In THIS game, the damage on skills is the same as the damage from equipment. Equipment just gives much higher stats since it actually improves as you progress through the game(unlike your sps skills).


    Because of this, if triple slash were divided into 3 attacks instead of how it is currently(even if you divide the damage of the skill into 3) it would vastly increase damage compared to now(because your characters base stats and those of its equipment are now being tripled in comparison).


    This is why some attacks deal more damage early on in the game, but because they are slow will actually deal less damage than basic attacks late game(dps wise). The bonuses on the skill itself just dont match up to the bonuses from equipment/buffs.


    Therefore adjusting numbers on triple slash so that it hits 3 separate times will never have it end up doing the same damage as it does now as 1 hit.


    In order for that to happen, the entire damage system would need to be reworked so that skills did a % of damage instead of a flat amount.


    Doing this would be interesting, skills wouldn't lose usefulness over time as they do now and instead would stay proportionally the same. However it would definitely take some getting used to.


    Besides some skills are always going to fall off(like bleeds) since our equipment gets more powerful but our level caps dont.

  • When a skill has 300 ranged damage, it isnt the same as dealing 300% of your ranged damage. So it isnt as simple as 1x3=3x1.

    yeah, i know. i was just trying to piss off jekyll bit more with some "quick maths" but it's whatever now i guess. his explanations are all over the place though (especially the random screenshots and the circles, that cracked me up a bit)


    but yeah, if i were to use my very simplified equation with taking only the 2 variables we're discussing which is x="skill attack" and y="equipment attack".. it wouldn't be x*y. it would be x+y. therefore the damage of 1 skills vs 3 skills all depend on the variables. so in some cases the damage will be the same, in others not.


    hopefully that makes it clear that i actually understand how damage quick maths works.


    and so, now it's time to nitpick some more


    In THIS game, the damage on skills is the same as the damage from equipment. Equipment just gives much higher stats since it actually improves as you progress through the game(unlike your sps skills).

    the wording in this is very iffy. damage on skills is not the same as damage from equipment, and it's not that the equipment give "more stats". it's all depending on the variables as i said. so it's different case by case, and your statement doesn't hold true in all cases.


    Because of this, if triple slash were divided into 3 attacks instead of how it is currently(even if you divide the damage of the skill into 3) it would vastly increase damage compared to now(because your characters base stats and those of its equipment are now being tripled in comparison).

    that's true but, it might not always be "vast" increase.


    This is why some attacks deal more damage early on in the game, but because they are slow will actually deal less damage than basic attacks late game(dps wise). The bonuses on the skill itself just dont match up to the bonuses from equipment/buffs.

    you're talking about something completely different here. you're introducing variables (time and dps) where they shouldn't be when we're talking about the effects of skill attack and eq attack on total damage.

    and compared 2 different skills to each other instead of comparing a skill to eq.


    Therefore adjusting numbers on triple slash so that it hits 3 separate times will never have it end up doing the same damage as it does now as 1 hit.

    you say "never" but there is actually 1 case where it would be. and that's if everything else is equal to zero.


    In order for that to happen, the entire damage system would need to be reworked so that skills did a % of damage instead of a flat amount.


    Doing this would be interesting, skills wouldn't lose usefulness over time as they do now and instead would stay proportionally the same. However it would definitely take some getting used to.


    Besides some skills are always going to fall off(like bleeds) since our equipment gets more powerful but our level caps dont.

    honestly, yeah. that would so much better than keeping skills numbers constant. but at this point, they would never bother changing the entire formula so there's that.


    as for bleed effects, they need to be careful and have low percentages (like i would say max 5% for the highest lvl bleed) otherwise, those effects would become too strong.

  • your circles around the weapon effects and skill descriptions make no sense. using a skill with [100 ranged attack] 3 times will yield the same total damage as a skill with [300 ranged attack] one time. simple maths really 3x1=1x3.

    Sure, I cant argue anymore. Maybe someone else will have time to explain you maths.


    i was just trying to piss off jekyll bit more with some "quick maths"

    bruh

    find yourself a job


    sometimes I'm just triggered by ridiculous phrases

    Pinkamena in case you are looking for examples...

    The post was edited 2 times, last by Jekyll ().

  • quick maths were too much for you eh

  • My comparison of 2 skills to each other was to show the difference between what you get from skills(constant) and what you get from equipment (variable). It is why a strong but slow attack can be good early (when the skill's own high damage gives it better dps) but bad later(when the attack from equipment being multiplied heavily outweighs the difference in skill attack numbers).

  • My comparison of 2 skills to each other was to show the difference between what you get from skills(constant) and what you get from equipment (variable). It is why a strong but slow attack can be good early (when the skill's own high damage gives it better dps) but bad later(when the attack from equipment being multiplied heavily outweighs the difference in skill attack numbers).

    OMG basically what I meant