Communicating/Feedback Problems e.g. Grasslin Events and other events

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  • You introduce an event but limit the capability to participate in it, this is not how you encourage activity or in your words 'fun'. When you structure something in this manner you turn what should be an interesting thing to do into a job or a chore which is the antithesis of fun.

    Which is strange bizarre I have to state this given the state of the game revolves around a very limited raid that can only be done so many times per week activity is declining and more reasons are being given not to play the game.

    If this is the response to the disaster that is the Mad Hare raid then this is a poor response.

    You slashed the gold income and players asked for stuff in compensation, given gold is needed to achieve almost everything in the game.

    When people was asking for perfection stones they was asking for more ways to acquire it, not some time-based limited event. They wanted better permanent additions.

    When players told you you made Mad Hare easy for alts they wasn't saying restrict us to absurd levels, they was telling you the raid mechanically was rubbish and was easy to do with alts.

    You put the raid seal in Nosmall which is a continuation of a practice where you put lower level seals in nosmall instead of just fixing the ways to farm the seal which are ridiculously outdated, for which you are shocked players didn't respond positively.

    There's a lot more I could go into there, but I made a long ticket explaining them in more detail which got not a good response, so I don't believe you are taking in feedback very well.

    Someone mentioned the PvP event that was organised, well you guys cut your noses off with that one you restricted the level players could be at to participate in it which ruled out the majority of PvPers (Yes the majority of people who like pvp are over Lvl 90) so it is insulting to suggest player's weren't interested, even if they was they wasn't eligible anyway, so well done!

    Finally, organising something is really not impossible to do:

    board.en.nostale.gameforge.com…pm-GMT-UK-Time-9pm-GMT-1/

    Here you go, there's an example of success from Lockheed organising sp8 of her own volition.

    Tenayardaros
  • NattoKilla wrote:

    You introduce an event but limit the capability to participate in it, this is not how you encourage activity or in your words 'fun'. When you structure something in this manner you turn what should be an interesting thing to do into a job or a chore which is the antithesis of fun.

    Which is strange bizarre I have to state this given the state of the game revolves around a very limited raid that can only be done so many times per week activity is declining and more reasons are being given not to play the game.

    If this is the response to the disaster that is the Mad Hare raid then this is a poor response.

    You slashed the gold income and players asked for stuff in compensation, given gold is needed to achieve almost everything in the game.

    When people was asking for perfection stones they was asking for more ways to acquire it, not some time-based limited event. They wanted better permanent additions.

    When players told you you made Mad Hare easy for alts they wasn't saying restrict us to absurd levels, they was telling you the raid mechanically was rubbish and was easy to do with alts.

    You put the raid seal in Nosmall which is a continuation of a practice where you put lower level seals in nosmall instead of just fixing the ways to farm the seal which are ridiculously outdated, for which you are shocked players didn't respond positively.

    There's a lot more I could go into there, but I made a long ticket explaining them in more detail which got not a good response, so I don't believe you are taking in feedback very well.

    Someone mentioned the PvP event that was organised, well you guys cut your noses off with that one you restricted the level players could be at to participate in it which ruled out the majority of PvPers (Yes the majority of people who like pvp are over Lvl 90) so it is insulting to suggest player's weren't interested, even if they was they wasn't eligible anyway, so well done!

    Finally, organising something is really not impossible to do:

    board.en.nostale.gameforge.com…pm-GMT-UK-Time-9pm-GMT-1/

    Here you go, there's an example of success from Lockheed organising sp8 of her own volition.

    Tenayardaros
    Gosh, everything is on point. I support 100%. (no sarcasm)
  • NattoKilla wrote:

    You introduce an event but limit the capability to participate in it, this is not how you encourage activity or in your words 'fun'. When you structure something in this manner you turn what should be an interesting thing to do into a job or a chore which is the antithesis of fun.

    Which is strange bizarre I have to state this given the state of the game revolves around a very limited raid that can only be done so many times per week activity is declining and more reasons are being given not to play the game.
    That part has been answered:

    Aureli wrote:

    Since the event itself was removed from the game by the developer and only the raid can still be activated, it is unfortunately not possible to reintroduce the raid seal crafting system that was used before.

    NattoKilla wrote:

    You put the raid seal in Nosmall which is a continuation of a practice where you put lower level seals in nosmall instead of just fixing the ways to farm the seal which are ridiculously outdated, for which you are shocked players didn't respond positively.
    Also answered:

    Aureli wrote:

    the Raid Seal NosMall offer was removed

    NattoKilla wrote:

    There's a lot more I could go into there, but I made a long ticket explaining them in more detail which got not a good response, so I don't believe you are taking in feedback very well.
    Those above changes happened because they listened to the feedback in this specific thread. So I am not sure what do you mean in this line.


    NattoKilla wrote:

    Here you go, there's an example of success from Lockheed organising sp8 of her own volition.
    Sure, I remember that and I had helped her a lot with it. I don't get what you mean though, it still should be up to the players to do that not the GMs.
  • Morgoth wrote:

    NattoKilla wrote:

    You introduce an event but limit the capability to participate in it, this is not how you encourage activity or in your words 'fun'. When you structure something in this manner you turn what should be an interesting thing to do into a job or a chore which is the antithesis of fun.

    Which is strange bizarre I have to state this given the state of the game revolves around a very limited raid that can only be done so many times per week activity is declining and more reasons are being given not to play the game.
    That part has been answered:

    Aureli wrote:

    Since the event itself was removed from the game by the developer and only the raid can still be activated, it is unfortunately not possible to reintroduce the raid seal crafting system that was used before.

    So why did they need to make it 1/day + everything else is pay2play in the first place? I wish that was the first time but it isnt. They've received plenty of feedback and yet every event we go all over again...
  • Morgoth wrote:

    NattoKilla wrote:

    You introduce an event but limit the capability to participate in it, this is not how you encourage activity or in your words 'fun'. When you structure something in this manner you turn what should be an interesting thing to do into a job or a chore which is the antithesis of fun.

    Which is strange bizarre I have to state this given the state of the game revolves around a very limited raid that can only be done so many times per week activity is declining and more reasons are being given not to play the game.
    That part has been answered:

    Aureli wrote:

    Since the event itself was removed from the game by the developer and only the raid can still be activated, it is unfortunately not possible to reintroduce the raid seal crafting system that was used before.

    NattoKilla wrote:

    You put the raid seal in Nosmall which is a continuation of a practice where you put lower level seals in nosmall instead of just fixing the ways to farm the seal which are ridiculously outdated, for which you are shocked players didn't respond positively.

    It is still limited, i said before i wanna spam it. i cant spam and host it with 5 raid seals. I wanna spam for hours

    Morgoth wrote:

    Those above changes happened because they listened to the feedback in this specific thread. So I am not sure what do you mean in this line.
    I think he meant feedback in general.
  • Jekyll wrote:

    Morgoth wrote:

    NattoKilla wrote:

    You introduce an event but limit the capability to participate in it, this is not how you encourage activity or in your words 'fun'. When you structure something in this manner you turn what should be an interesting thing to do into a job or a chore which is the antithesis of fun.

    Which is strange bizarre I have to state this given the state of the game revolves around a very limited raid that can only be done so many times per week activity is declining and more reasons are being given not to play the game.
    That part has been answered:

    Aureli wrote:

    Since the event itself was removed from the game by the developer and only the raid can still be activated, it is unfortunately not possible to reintroduce the raid seal crafting system that was used before.

    So why did they need to make it 1/day + everything else is pay2play in the first place? I wish that was the first time but it isnt. They've received plenty of feedback and yet every event we go all over again...
    Not something I can really answer, bad idea that was fixed I guess?

    Q-Arch wrote:

    It is still limited, i said before i wanna spam it. i cant spam and host it with 5 raid seals.
    Well that still falls under Aureli's answer as to why they can't make the seals drop or crafting system etc.
    Keep in mind that only the leader uses a seal, there should be enough teams out there to spam it, if not I guess they might increase it again.
  • Morgoth wrote:

    Well that still falls under Aureli's answer as to why they can't make the seals drop or crafting system etc.
    Keep in mind that only the leader uses a seal, there should be enough teams out there to spam it, if not I guess they might increase it again.
    I understand that. Why not put it for free in nosmall then, so i can grab as many as i wanna host (problem solved) ?
    its getting a little bit confused if raidhoster is changing every 5 raids.
  • NattoKilla wrote:

    Someone mentioned the PvP event that was organised, well you guys cut your noses off with that one you restricted the level players could be at to participate in it which ruled out the majority of PvPers (Yes the majority of people who like pvp are over Lvl 90) so it is insulting to suggest player's weren't interested, even if they was they wasn't eligible anyway, so well done!
    i agree with that fact that the most recent pvp event by frostwolf was too ambitious, too complicated, too restrictive and not thought out very well.

    but it is very clear that interest in a pvp event in en servers is low.

    NattoKilla wrote:

    Finally, organising something is really not impossible to do:

    board.en.nostale.gameforge.com…pm-GMT-UK-Time-9pm-GMT-1/

    Here you go, there's an example of success from Lockheed organising sp8 of her own volition.
    i don't think they ever claimed organizing something is impossible. when you talk about pvp event specifically though, the issue with it is not enough interest from players. not that it's impossible to organize. this one was successful because people had interest in it.

    Jekyll wrote:

    Gosh, everything is on point. I support 100%. (no sarcasm)
    seriously? i can agree with some points, but most of what he said is outdated issues (they increased given seals and removed it from nosmall u know)

    Q-Arch wrote:

    It is still limited, i said before i wanna spam it. i cant spam and host it with 5 raid seals.
    i say 5 per person is plenty enough to spam. as long as you can find people who want to spam, you will have enough seals to do so.
    English Gandora the Dragon of Destruction

    Chinese 破壞龍 鋼多拉

    French Gandora le Dragon de la Destruction

    German Gandora der Drache der Zerstörung

    Italian Gandora, il Drago della Distruzione

    Korean 파괴룡 간드라

    Portuguese Gandora o Dragão da Destruição

    Spanish Gandora el Dragón de la Destrucción

    Japanese (kana) はかいりゅうガンドラ

    Japanese (base) 破壊竜ガンドラ

    Other names Crush D. Gandra
  • Jekyll wrote:

    Gandalof wrote:

    (they increased given seals and removed it from nosmall u know)
    I know but it happened AFTER we sent them yet another rage letter about putting stuff into nosmall and limiting casual players.
    I agree with Gandalof on the points he made (Especially how we never claimed organizing an event is impossible, we only said there is not much interest especially for pvp events).
    And this is an exaggeration now, it got solved so let's just get on with our lives? (And it got solved much faster than the easter event thing, so clearly when something is entirely up to Gameforge speed is in our favor, while for easter event they had to contact Entwell)
  • Jekyll wrote:

    Gandalof wrote:

    (they increased given seals and removed it from nosmall u know)
    I know but it happened AFTER we sent them yet another rage letter about putting stuff into nosmall and limiting casual players.
    obviously it would be better if they didn't make those mistake from the start, but they still fixed it very very quickly (like im actually surprised) to the point of it not mattering that much.

    you know, im very critical of everyone working on nostale and i think i've shown that many times. but you also gotta give credit where credit is due. they did listen to us and worked on a great fix for it quickly. i personally couldn't ask for more. so what else do you them to do so you could be satisfied?
    English Gandora the Dragon of Destruction

    Chinese 破壞龍 鋼多拉

    French Gandora le Dragon de la Destruction

    German Gandora der Drache der Zerstörung

    Italian Gandora, il Drago della Distruzione

    Korean 파괴룡 간드라

    Portuguese Gandora o Dragão da Destruição

    Spanish Gandora el Dragón de la Destrucción

    Japanese (kana) はかいりゅうガンドラ

    Japanese (base) 破壊竜ガンドラ

    Other names Crush D. Gandra
  • Gandalof wrote:

    you know, im very critical of everyone working on nostale and i think i've shown that many times. but you also gotta give credit where credit is due. they did listen to us and worked on a great fix for it quickly. i personally couldn't ask for more. so what else do you them to do so you could be satisfied?
    I'll cite myself when they do the same mistake again. Im sure it wont be long from now.


    Gandalof wrote:

    obviously it would be better if they didn't make those mistake from the start
    thats the point. They had the idea what players won't like, based on previous feedback, and they did it anyway. That's what I'm criticising. Unless we rage on their actions they wont do anything. And its quite exhausting that these relationships require us to constantly provide feedback whilst their actions are selective.
  • Jekyll wrote:

    thats the point. They had the idea what players won't like, based on previous feedback, and they did it anyway. That's what I'm criticising. Unless we rage on their actions they wont do anything. And its quite exhausting that these relationships require us to constantly provide feedback whilst their actions are selective.
    Not exactly the same. Keep in mind we have other Nostale communities too, maybe they liked the old raid seals in the Nosmall - we can't know that. (And as I said before a lot of people in the past actually demanded this.)
    This is the first time they put event raid seals in the nosmall I don't recall it happening again before.
  • Jekyll wrote:

    I'll cite myself when they do the same mistake again. Im sure it wont be long from now.
    yeah probably, i dont doubt they'll "mess up" again in the future. *mess up as in doing one or more of the following: something heavily p2w (like this event, or making an important item noswheel only.. etc), gamebreaking bugs (and they are gonna blame players for it as a bonus), easily alt-abusable raid, raid (or event in general, which includes mobs and quests) with terrible rewards.

    i'll cite myself on this too (if i remember to)

    Jekyll wrote:

    thats the point. They had the idea what players won't like, based on previous feedback, and they did it anyway. That's what I'm criticising. Unless we rage on their actions they wont do anything. And its quite exhausting that these relationships require us to constantly provide feedback whilst their actions are selective.
    yeah i can agree with that. i'm just saying that i currently have no issues with this event, so i cut them some slack. this topic (for me) is for another day, because im hoping there is at least some improvement in that regard.
    English Gandora the Dragon of Destruction

    Chinese 破壞龍 鋼多拉

    French Gandora le Dragon de la Destruction

    German Gandora der Drache der Zerstörung

    Italian Gandora, il Drago della Distruzione

    Korean 파괴룡 간드라

    Portuguese Gandora o Dragão da Destruição

    Spanish Gandora el Dragón de la Destrucción

    Japanese (kana) はかいりゅうガンドラ

    Japanese (base) 破壊竜ガンドラ

    Other names Crush D. Gandra
  • First off, I didn't think this had to be explained but just because you 'resolved' (a joke in itself) the issue doesn't mean I can't talk about the problem, after all if you wanted that to be the case you wouldn't make these errors in the first place.


    Morgoth wrote:

    That part has been answered:

    Aureli wrote:

    Since the event itself was removed from the game by the developer and only the raid can still be activated, it is unfortunately not possible to reintroduce the raid seal crafting system that was used before.

    That doesn't answer anything other than why the acquisition method for the raid seals was chosen. It certainly doesn't explain why the initial implementation (Which by the way sparked this thread) was restrictive beyond reasonable means. So you'll have to give me an answer for why this error was made.


    Morgoth wrote:

    Also answered:

    Aureli wrote:

    the Raid Seal NosMall offer was removed

    That doesn't answer anything either, that's just an admission you screwed up (which admittedly is better than nothing). Again this doesn't explain the initial decisions being made.

    Unless you can present me a case why you (or anyone for that matter) thought it was a good idea in the first place?

    Or at the very least I would like an answer why the raid seals have to be limited in the first place? I've never heard of an event raid in which you restrict the players capability to do the content, content which they would expend more time than being granted here to do.

    Morgoth wrote:

    Those above changes happened because they listened to the feedback in this specific thread. So I am not sure what do you mean in this line.
    @Q-Arch Understood it very well I meant feedback in general, in regards to this thread yes you made some changes, some hit the mark (Nosmall) and some didn't (still restricted). But as a whole my direction was about the disaster of the Mad Hare raid, this is nothing more than a continuation of it. If feedback was taken as well as you claim, we really shouldn't be seeing these mistakes. But here we are.

    Morgoth wrote:

    Sure, I remember that and I had helped her a lot with it. I don't get what you mean though, it still should be up to the players to do that not the GMs.
    Here we have the discrepancy, sure it is up to the players. As a raidhoster myself I fully agree with that however to explain further:

    It is in the GM's interest to interact with the playerbase to maintain transparency, respect and a healthy relationship between the players and the GM's (and those higher up). I could go into why but for the sake of yours and your fellow colleagues integrity in administering this game I won't mention those who haven't been doing a good job of the three qualities I stated.

    I posted that example because I participated in it and it was received very well. Having a distant attitude is not as helpful as you think when it comes to player relations.

    Morgoth wrote:

    I agree with Gandalof on the points he made (Especially how we never claimed organizing an event is impossible, we only said there is not much interest especially for pvp events).And this is an exaggeration now, it got solved so let's just get on with our lives? (And it got solved much faster than the easter event thing, so clearly when something is entirely up to Gameforge speed is in our favor, while for easter event they had to contact Entwell)
    Read the sentence again:

    NattoKilla wrote:

    Finally, organising something is really not impossible to do
    I never said you made that claim, it's an example, a follow-up in regards to the PvP event. I thought it was suitable to show when something was an success. Yes you'll again state it's up to the players and it is. But I'm not sure how we can be state that with such confidence when the current practice doesn't seem to be working, hence the errors you made here.

    The post was edited 1 time, last by NattoKilla: Changed the tone of my posts ().

  • NattoKilla wrote:

    First off, I didn't think this had to be explained but just because you 'resolved' (a joke in itself) the issue doesn't mean I can't talk about the problem, after all if you wanted that to be the case you wouldn't make these errors in the first place.
    I don't think I had to explain this too but well, why would you talk about a problem that got resolved? If it happens again in the future then sure?

    NattoKilla wrote:

    That doesn't answer anything other than why the acquisition method for the raid seals was chosen. It certainly doesn't explain why the initial implementation (Which by the way sparked this thread) was restrictive beyond reasonable means. So you'll have to give me an answer for why this error was made.

    NattoKilla wrote:

    That doesn't answer anything either, that's just an admission you screwed up (which admittedly is better than nothing). Again this doesn't explain the initial decisions being made.

    Unless you can present me a case why you (or anyone for that matter) thought it was a good idea in the first place?

    Or at the very least I would like an answer why the raid seals have to be limited in the first place? I've never heard of an event raid in which you restrict the players capability to do the content, content which they would expend more time than being granted here to do.
    If Aureli's answers did not satisfy you there is not much I can do.
    - Not a decision I took.
    - I did not say it was a good or a bad idea.
    In this case I am not the right person for you to ask those, so maybe wait for tomorrow. If Aureli finds the need to clarify those 2 points she will do so. Otherwise your questions are somewhat already answered there.

    NattoKilla wrote:

    @Q-Arch Understood it very well I meant feedback in general, in regards to this thread yes you made some changes, some hit the mark (Nosmall) and some didn't (still restricted). But as a whole my direction was about the disaster of the Mad Hare raid, this is nothing more than a continuation of it. If feedback was taken as well as you claim, we really shouldn't be seeing these mistakes. But here we are.
    Sure I guess, although I do not see how this is the same disaster as the Mad rabbit raid, no gold drop abuse happened here. Seals were not in nosmall either and were obtained normally.

    NattoKilla wrote:

    Here we have the discrepancy, sure it is up to the players. As a raidhoster myself I fully agree with that however to explain further:

    It is in the GM's interest to interact with the playerbase to maintain transparency, respect and a healthy relationship between the players and the GM's (and those higher up). I could go into why but for the sake of yours and your fellow colleagues integrity in administering this game I won't mention those who haven't been doing a good job of the three qualities I stated.

    I posted that example because I participated in it and it was received very well. Having a distant attitude is not as helpful as you think when it comes to player relations.
    And if you remember both Lockheed and me did a lot of raids in the past including that specific Laurena organization you mentioned.
    And seems like there is some confusion as to what a GM's tasks are. Spoiler alert: Hosting raids or making GM events is not in that list.
    So mentioning GMs who are not hosting raids is not something you can use as "they are not doing their job properly" because this is not what we are supposed to do.

    NattoKilla wrote:

    I never said you made that claim, it's an example, a follow-up in regards to the PvP event. I thought it was suitable to show when something was an success. Yes you'll again state it's up to the players and it is. But I'm not sure how we can be state that with such confidence when the current practice doesn't seem to be working, hence the errors you made here.
    Well when you say "Finally, organising something is really not impossible to do" you somewhat imply that we said it's impossible. But anyway lets not argue over that lets just say I understood wrong thats fine.
    It was not the first time we attempted a PvP event, I also tried it in the past and people were still not interested. In a time where UK was active and heavy in PvP.
    But since you are an old player I guess you must remember my attempt.
  • NattoKilla wrote:

    First off, I didn't think this had to be explained but just because you 'resolved' (a joke in itself) the issue doesn't mean I can't talk about the problem, after all if you wanted that to be the case you wouldn't make these errors in the first place.
    i agree with this. and i know this isn't aimed at me however, it looked to me as if you weren't aware of the fixes and the post that aureli made. so that's why (i think) morgoth reply was quoting that post. but of course, this might not be the case and i cant be sure about it. i'm only speaking for myself and how it looks like to me.

    NattoKilla wrote:

    That doesn't answer anything other than why the acquisition method for the raid seals was chosen. It certainly doesn't explain why the initial implementation (Which by the way sparked this thread) was restrictive beyond reasonable means. So you'll have to give me an answer for why this error was made.
    let me tell you the answer that he cant give: it was not an error, they did it because they're greedy, simple as that.

    NattoKilla wrote:

    Morgoth wrote:

    Sure, I remember that and I had helped her a lot with it. I don't get what you mean though, it still should be up to the players to do that not the GMs.
    Here we have the discrepancy, sure it is up to the players. As a raidhoster myself I fully agree with that
    soo.. what's the discrepancy here? you both agree to it.

    NattoKilla wrote:

    It is in the GM's interest to interact with the playerbase to maintain transparency, respect and a healthy relationship between the players and the GM's (and those higher up). I could go into why but for the sake of yours and your fellow colleagues integrity in administering this game I won't mention those who haven't been doing a good job of the three qualities I stated.

    I posted that example because I participated in it and it was received very well. Having a distant attitude is not as helpful as you think when it comes to player relations.
    in my opinion, in general GMs' transparency and involvement in the community is great. can you explain why you think otherwise? i know there are few bad apples here and there, but aside from those outliers (which you can't blame the whole team for) GMs been great and helpful to players throughout the history of the game from my personal experience.

    NattoKilla wrote:

    Morgoth wrote:

    I agree with Gandalof on the points he made (Especially how we never claimed organizing an event is impossible, we only said there is not much interest especially for pvp events).And this is an exaggeration now, it got solved so let's just get on with our lives? (And it got solved much faster than the easter event thing, so clearly when something is entirely up to Gameforge speed is in our favor, while for easter event they had to contact Entwell)
    Read the sentence again:

    NattoKilla wrote:

    Finally, organising something is really not impossible to do
    I never said you made that claim, it's an example, a follow-up in regards to the PvP event. I thought it was suitable to show when something was an success. Yes you'll again state it's up to the players and it is. But I'm not sure how we can be state that with such confidence when the current practice doesn't seem to be working, hence the errors you made here.
    you didn't say it, but you implied it. if not, then tell me what was the point of the comparison you made?
    English Gandora the Dragon of Destruction

    Chinese 破壞龍 鋼多拉

    French Gandora le Dragon de la Destruction

    German Gandora der Drache der Zerstörung

    Italian Gandora, il Drago della Distruzione

    Korean 파괴룡 간드라

    Portuguese Gandora o Dragão da Destruição

    Spanish Gandora el Dragón de la Destrucción

    Japanese (kana) はかいりゅうガンドラ

    Japanese (base) 破壊竜ガンドラ

    Other names Crush D. Gandra
  • Gandalof wrote:

    so that's why (i think) morgoth reply was quoting that post. but of course, this might not be the case and i cant be sure about it. i'm only speaking for myself and how it looks like to me.
    Your assumption is correct there, I actually thought he did not see the changes yet. As it did not seem logical to me to mention those issues again after they were solved.
    If he added a line "I know some changes happened but I just wanted to mention those problems again" it would have saved me 5 minutes of struggling with the quote system.