[Feedback] Easter Event & (New) Raid!

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  • Morgoth wrote:

    Q-Arch wrote:

    Aureli wrote:

    We will monitor the situation of the event raid for now and might consider further changes in the future.
    I dont think there is anything left to monitor, as we arent doing this raid anymore.
    That also can be monitored you know.
    I still think that keeping gold around 30-40k and limiting daily attempts might be better solution than simply drop gold rewards to 4k...
  • I find all this feedback interesting, this raid is nothing more than a crutch for the problems with the foundation of this game.

    Low Level Raids have lost value and participation

    Act 5.2 Raids (and the zone) got patched into pointlessness

    FC got patched into pointlessness (Shells)

    Act 6 which caused the pointlessness of the former two has proven to not be sufficient in terms of content and good design to be a good replacement.

    People just hoped this new raid would give them something else to do, but this raid is just an distraction, Event raids are temporary, the stuff we always do (or used too) is here forever and needs some love.

    From a logical point of view this patch makes sense, we have a raid that represents this reward in terms of how easy it is (Snowman), people are just disappointed that something they would of done they will no longer do.

    Another observation aside, it's kind of humourous how all the time freed from the IC patch has exposed how little there is to do in this game, yes people dedicating overwhelming amount of hours in a piss easy raid for large amounts of gold is a problem. But it's not like there's anything else you can do this event, which again I state wouldn't be a problem if there was other things to do in this game. Before anyone tries to suggest otherwise...may I remind you when we can only do Fernon...you know the only raid that really matters right now? Compare that to when Ibra/Kertos/Valakus/Greni were the only raids and when you could do them, the difference is overwhelming.

    Darlequinn/Tenayardaros

    The post was edited 1 time, last by NattoKilla ().

  • Jekyll wrote:

    That's what I dont like about "we're all equal". You cant make it comfortable and fair for everybody, when there are actually lazy people that try to criticize something for being difficult but arent doing anything in the first place (I mean trying to adapt, reach skill to play under pressure).
    It can't be completely fair for everybody, of course, but it's not as simple as fair vs unfair. Some players will always have an advantage, but there's a huge difference between general or unavoidable imbalances (like the advantages all higher levels will have above lower levels) and completely destroying the game economy unnecessarily and purely through some peoples greed.
    There may be a few people who don't put much effort into the game who will have criticised the alt use in the raid. There will have been far more people who will have put a lot of effort into the game who also criticised the alt use in the raid. Not all who criticise are low levels who won't put in effort.

    Jekyll wrote:

    And pls, quote me where did I say that not making alts is being lazy? I think it's not in this thread and not this month, maybe. I dont know if I ever said that. I was replying to "low lvl char" that plays nostale for a prolonged period of time and still complains about not being able to achieve anything and every time pull that "im low lvl so u must help me" card.
    I quoted two posters, one specifically used the word lazy describing those who "dun wanna train even some low lvl alts for it". Someone else made the point that low levels were trying to compete with alt-users, to which you replied:

    Jekyll wrote:

    Maybe people with 1 low lvl account should spend more energy to do something and not whine about how hard everything is and that they want everything immediately? smh
    1. We all began as low levels, but now it is far more difficult to progress as a low level than it used to be. If they make any complaints about this, it doesn't necessarily mean they haven't been putting in the effort.

    2. Low levels and their effort are somewhat irrelevant in this discussion anyway, though I know you were replying to another poster. Many of the people concerned about how the raid was being completed were high levels themselves who could see the effect it was having.

    Jekyll wrote:

    I'm not greedy, I dont give a damn f*** that the raid is not abusable anymore, if I cared I would have stayed longer yesterday until I drop dead, and I knew they were gonna fix this issue. My point is that there is just nothing worth spamming (as krazer21 mentioned too), if they want to reduce gold - fine, but staying with the stupid rewards for completing the raid as it is now? Complete waste of time, and people who are going to spend their time to get this crap PSP instead of lvling are bringing troubles to themselves. If u cant effieciently spend your time and have below 0 will to reach anything, maybe you should drop MMORPG genre?
    You may not care, perhaps, but others here seem to and the general belief amongst many (not necessarily you and not just in this thread but throughout all threads discussing similar alt-use), is that 'nothing is stopping them from using alts and doing the same, so they should stop complaining and level alts'. I've heard this far too much and am trying to point out that it's incorrect: There may be many reasons stopping players from doing the same and their not doing so is not purely down to laziness as suggested by the other person I quoted.
    Personally, although I'd ideally support a limit to alt-use, it won't happen. So to stick to the topic of this thread:
    • I don't think the gold should have been reduced and certainly not to such a low amount. There does need to be some motivation for players to complete the raid and gold drop is one of them. Other event raids seem to manage fine with high gold drops, just because the raid itself is made difficult enough to prevent most alt-abuse.
    • I agree with the other changes, like more circles (especially appearing around map edges where alts can be placed) and allowing the boss to attack through barriers.
    • Changes to the raid entry, perhaps to make entering with alts more difficult. Like with the Sheep Farm, make the seals untradeable and required by every member to join. It might make entering less convenient for all, but generally players will mob for event snacks etc. anyway so, hopefully it won't be too bad.
    • I don't think the box rewards will be something so easy to change so they'll probably remain the same, whether liked or not.

    Jekyll wrote:

    Yes, MMORPG used to be co-operative, but its not going to be back, because the target audience is a bit old now, most of us work or study, and 'modern' teens prefer other popular projects, such as LoL, and even other genres, such as shooters or single-players. Every time Nostale gets less co-op content and people are getting used to being alone (farming/lvling/raiding with alts) and those who complain that raids/lvling is too difficult are playing fools for those who gonna abuse the raid after it gets nerfed. It's just how it is, you can do nothing but spread negative attitude to these players, which makes u toxic as well.
    You can compare two different MMORPGs from GameForge, like Metin-2, and tell me how the events there are not making more difference between the low-lvl and high-lvl players? The higher the lvl is, the higher the expences are, and if u want to earn as much money at lv80 as c28 does well not happening, even at events.
    Well, in this case the argument wasn't that the raid was too difficult. Rather that is was too easy!
    Yes, other games are more popular. Yes, the majority of players are now older and busy with real life stuff. Does this mean that because they have less time and motivation to play Nostale anymore, that players should be able to use alts as a 'shortcut' to obtain stuff faster and in less time. How far does that use extend? Issues come when players don't only use alts for convenience, but abuse them to such an extent that it affects gameplay for all; making competing impossible or affecting the economy so negatively that it leads to issues for all. Reputation Ranks, Popularity Ranks etc., is totally meaningless now and just rankings of who has the most alts. This problem was only such a big issue because of the extent to which is was exploited. Again though, this is all off-topic.

    The post was edited 1 time, last by Kaile ().

  • NattoKilla wrote:

    Low Level Raids have lost value and participation
    Because why lv90 needs to do ginseng/castra for nothing?


    NattoKilla wrote:

    Act 5.2 Raids (and the zone) got patched into pointlessness
    Absolutely. It's a bit related to fernons,too.
    It meant to make crafting c25/28 easier because it did cost too much at that point and new raids were difficult to complete and even more difficult to get equipment pieces.
    Then Fernon raids came in completely ruining crafting because fernon boxes introduce so many equipment pieces and are easy to complete (relatively, but 8 experienced AND RICH OFC players with buffs can complete it within 1min, bad and unexperienced players will get killed 3 times and kicked out from the raid map)


    NattoKilla wrote:

    People just hoped this new raid would give them something else to do, but this raid is just an distraction, Event raids are temporary, the stuff we always do (or used too) is here forever and needs some love.
    Well the artwork looked like Joker so not really original content and yeah maybe everyone was waiting for a new concept but instead we got jack o'lantern raid with huge gold drops at the first day, then nerfed to the point where the rewards are meaningless and "QFC" raid is much more rewarding, and for saying this I'm getting hate from @Gandalof


    Kaile wrote:

    Does this mean that because they have less time and motivation to play Nostale anymore, that players should be able to use alts as a 'shortcut' to obtain stuff faster and in less time
    You'll keep getting the same answer: there's nothing to stop them. It really depend on mentality and how foreign-language speaking people are treated sometimes, so they want to achieve more than the 'local' and they use it. Even locals are prone to do that, but maybe not so many of them because they dont really have language barrier issues. Doesn't sound familiar? exactly whats happening in the world rn.


    Kaile wrote:

    Changes to the raid entry, perhaps to make entering with alts more difficult. Like with the Sheep Farm, make the seals untradeable and required by every member to join. It might make entering less convenient for all, but generally players will mob for event snacks etc. anyway so, hopefully it won't be too bad.

    Kaile wrote:

    I don't think the box rewards will be something so easy to change so they'll probably remain the same, whether liked or not.
    Unless the rewards are changed, this raid will remain dead. Its just not worth spending precious time. Its like if u go to work that u dont really like just to get 'thank you' and 10$ for 8h work.

    Now, if u make seals untradeable, people dont have time to farm these seals gonna complain, and if they dont have time even to farm most probably (not all of them ofc) they are still low lvl; lv90+ might not be interested in the raid at all with such rewards. People spammed them because of gold. No gold- no spammers. You cant force anyone to play, and the raid is boring, too. Think about it.

    The post was edited 2 times, last by Jekyll ().

  • Wow,there is a lot of talking in here,lol.
    Anyway, im the only one who wants back the old Imp easter event instead of this garbage Joker rip-off raid ?
    I mean I didn't even tried it but from the looks of it,it dosent look like a challenge.
    Im not sure about the mad bunny sp and what it does/how useful it is, but I would love to get an imp that can be extremely useful in fc thx for its invi and also in pve area thx for its aoe attacks.
    I don't see a reason why it should have only have these 2 event raids.
    Last Halloween event had 3 ( Jack/Macavity/Foxy) why not make 3 from now on ?
    Or why not replace the QFC since I saw that you elimated r6 eggs with jelly/flares/chickys.
    I kinda wated to return only for that one but now,meh.
    ~All the things she said ~
    ~All the things she said~
    ~Running through my head~
    ~Running through my head~
  • Pinkamena wrote:

    Anyway, im the only one who wants back the old Imp easter event instead of this garbage Joker rip-off raid ?
    Probably would be a good idea.


    Pinkamena wrote:

    I mean I didn't even tried it but from the looks of it,it dosent look like a challenge.
    it really isnt,same concept, but bad rewards. Why bother...


    Pinkamena wrote:

    Im not sure about the mad bunny sp and what it does/how useful it is,
    its not useful at all tbh.
  • I simply don't find a reason to own a mad bunny,everything he has its a weaker copy from a psp that can do it better.
    I mean there is nothing special about it.
    S Imp invi helps a lot, its actually extremely useful for swordies and mages.
    ~All the things she said ~
    ~All the things she said~
    ~Running through my head~
    ~Running through my head~
  • Jekyll wrote:

    Because why lv90 needs to do ginseng/castra for nothing?
    I know there's no reason for them to do it, but I'm saying there should be. Player recruitment is poor resulting in a top heavy game. So we should find solutions based on that. Making use of old content is a good start.

    Jekyll wrote:

    Absolutely. It's a bit related to fernons,too.
    It meant to make crafting c25/28 easier because it did cost too much at that point and new raids were difficult to complete and even more difficult to get equipment pieces.
    Then Fernon raids came in completely ruining crafting because fernon boxes introduce so many equipment pieces and are easy to complete (relatively, but 8 experienced AND RICH OFC players with buffs can complete it within 1min, bad and unexperienced players will get killed 3 times and kicked out from the raid map)
    It was it's original purpose but it never really worked out like that on UK, turns out giving up a good shell is not an option for players, majority of players just tried getting them from raids, which the limitations of Erenia and Zenas raids got exposed (Meter System). Erenia wasn't that difficult but the mechanics of Zenas was somewhat difficult.

    Fernon ruined crafting yes, but the crafting wasn't all that good and wasn't used that much. Crafting works when it makes the very best gear (95/96) but more importantly the previous gear is still almost as good as it (92/93) the designs around these raids are too limiting, Fernon is time-gated, Zenas/Erenia is time-gated and has other unnecessary requirements. The concept of Fernon wouldn't even be needed if Erenia/Zenas was more accessible and more fun to do.

    Jekyll wrote:

    Well the artwork looked like Joker so not really original content and yeah maybe everyone was waiting for a new concept but instead we got jack o'lantern raid with huge gold drops at the first day, then nerfed to the point where the rewards are meaningless and "QFC" raid is much more rewarding, and for saying this I'm getting hate from @Gandalof
    Event raids have always been gimmicky and have been mainly just other stuff to do. These nerfs are harsh but it was always going to happen there is precedence for this, the development team doesn't want super easy gold.
  • NattoKilla wrote:

    I know there's no reason for them to do it, but I'm saying there should be. Player recruitment is poor resulting in a top heavy game. So we should find solutions based on that. Making use of old content is a good start.
    I mean, is there anything? the new family system might help though, because there are daily quests. top families arent gonna share these raids anyway, cuz 15 players from their fam is 3k f exp points from each raid daily plus daily mission f exp...


    NattoKilla wrote:

    These nerfs are harsh but it was always going to happen there is precedence for this, the development team doesn't want super easy gold.
    Thats why I knew when I first saw how many gold drops there are as a reward, effing fernonraid #2 (not really as much but still too much)
    Its always an issue but the development team still doesnt know how to do things right first time, not 'redoing' it afterwards. Every *gosh darnit* time.
  • new raid why damage decreased too with update ? it doesnt write at anywhere.

    old cap was 175 damage now 155 or something you hit. we just want economy balance like decreasing gold. and it is good to fix blind location etc but why damage is decreased too .
    Member since Sep 12th 2007
  • Wow you guys do amaze me the one God Dam raid I liked for once you guys are nerfing what the actual **
    could you guys please make the drops worth our time no one is going to spend hours and hours on 4k drops Seriously.
    fix the dam multiclient so they can't use 10 alts done minimize it to 3 or something god dam.
  • I haven't personally participated but what I've learnt from this thread.

    - The players who can afford to mall don't want free players to have any sort of advantage thus decreasing this raids rewards.
    - The free to play players just want a decent raid with decent rewards for their time.

    My conclusion is that the raid should've been more difficult in terms of interactivity and things to do in the raid, lowering player damage towards the boss was a cheap way in my opinion to make the raid longer, which isn't necessarily the goal trying to be achieved.

    The gold amount originally seemed like a fine amount considering it would be shared by multiple players, players who have alt accounts may have abused the raid but more interactivity per-person would've solved that problem.

    Even if the gold was considered high (even though its not), this is an event that only happens once a year to celebrate the festive season, it's not like this will be a permanent raid added to the game all year long, let those who want to event raid and have the time on their hands enjoy the update.
  • Bravious wrote:

    I haven't personally participated but what I've learnt from this thread.

    - The players who can afford to mall don't want free players to have any sort of advantage thus decreasing this raids rewards.
    you've got that wrong. it's greedy players who have alts and lots of time who wanted the raid to remain the way it was. it has nothing to do with maller vs f2p.

    Bravious wrote:

    My conclusion is that the raid should've been more difficult in terms of interactivity and things to do in the raid, lowering player damage towards the boss was a cheap way in my opinion to make the raid longer, which isn't necessarily the goal trying to be achieved.
    what do you mean "a cheap way" and "isn't necessarily the goal trying to be achieved"?

    if their goal was to increase the time the raid takes.. well that goal has been achieved. and i don't see how is this a "cheap way" of doing that.

    Bravious wrote:

    The gold amount originally seemed like a fine amount considering it would be shared by multiple players, players who have alt accounts may have abused the raid but more interactivity per-person would've solved that problem.
    no, it really wasn't. it being shared by multiple players wouldn't make a difference to the catastrophic results this raid would've had on the economy on a macro scale.

    Bravious wrote:

    Even if the gold was considered high (even though its not), this is an event that only happens once a year to celebrate the festive season, it's not like this will be a permanent raid added to the game all year long
    this is precisely the issue. if this was available all year at all times then it would've been just another gold farming method alongside things like (pts, bts, ic, ts73.. etc) and players would just chose whatever method more efficient for them, and market will correct itself and reach an equilibrium and it will be fine for everyone.

    but because this is available on a limited time, people would've spammed the hell out of it.. massive influx of gold gets generated in a short time, prices rises up exponentially. and after the event is done this raid is gone, players who didn't have time/alts to abuse it and new players will have to deal with ridiculous prices that is too much for them with the much less efficient methods of making gold that they got available.

    Bravious wrote:

    let those who want to event raid and have the time on their hands enjoy the update.
    yeah, and screw people who don't have much time right? they aren't allowed to enjoy the event if they can't at least play 8 hours everyday doing the same raid over and over.
    English Gandora the Dragon of Destruction

    Chinese 破壞龍 鋼多拉

    French Gandora le Dragon de la Destruction

    German Gandora der Drache der Zerstörung

    Italian Gandora, il Drago della Distruzione

    Korean 파괴룡 간드라

    Portuguese Gandora o Dragão da Destruição

    Spanish Gandora el Dragón de la Destrucción

    Japanese (kana) はかいりゅうガンドラ

    Japanese (base) 破壊竜ガンドラ

    Other names Crush D. Gandra
  • Hermonie- wrote:


    fix the dam multiclient so they can't use 10 alts done minimize it to 3 or something god dam.
    Im glad there are still people who consider infinite amount of alts a problem.
    I seriously thought that I was the only one.
    Also I agree with Ganda,people are getting rich easy and fast and the prices in bazar skyrocket.
    People who didn't caught this easter event will get a middle finger when they come back to nos when they will check bazar.
    We don't want to rush the process of transforming nos us in nos uk 2,do we ?
    But I guess nobody gives a flying jutsu about it anymore since the merge is confirmed for this year anyway.
    ~All the things she said ~
    ~All the things she said~
    ~Running through my head~
    ~Running through my head~
  • Pinkamena wrote:

    Hermonie- wrote:

    fix the dam multiclient so they can't use 10 alts done minimize it to 3 or something god dam.
    Im glad there are still people who consider infinite amount of alts a problem.I seriously thought that I was the only one.
    Also I agree with Ganda,people are getting rich easy and fast and the prices in bazar skyrocket.
    People who didn't caught this easter event will get a middle finger when they come back to nos when they will check bazar.
    We don't want to rush the process of transforming nos us in nos uk 2,do we ?
    But I guess nobody gives a flying jutsu about it anymore since the merge is confirmed for this year anyway.

    There are 2 problems here:

    1) Even if the client is limited, there are other methods accepted by Nostale to open more than one account.
    2) Before unlimit the number of alters Nostale should have though all the consecuences, because it's easy to give things but not to remove them.
    The main difference between PvE and PvP player is that the first one fights vs himself to achieve his best version of himself while the second one just wanna be better than others.
  • Thank you all for you feedback about the new event raid. We have been following the discussions and have requested some changes to Entwell in order to make the event raid rewards a bit more attractive for you. We should get some changes in the event raid box early next week (ore information will follow then).

    Have a nice weekend :)