Let's talk about specialists balance

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    • HOW ? Bravious,How ?
      How do you expect the Red Mage to use inferno on the Blue Mage,when the Blue Mage has a longer range and more stuns each with a 60% + chance to apply,How ? Explain.
      Groovy Beach costume will still take away significant damage from DOT,so thats not a counter-argument.
      Does Red Mage has a passive speed bonus ? does the Inferno ability has been changed and it is no longer a skillshot ? When you press on the enemy BM does it instant inferno him ? Do you get what im saying ?
      In order to use inferno on him he must be stunned or imobilized,this is the RM main problem he have only one reliable stun that can use,and thats not enough because of Frozen Shield.
      Let's end this in a diplomatic note though,we are going off topic now.
      People belive what they want to believe,even when facts are stated and objectivity is proven,Now changes for both Sp's.
      RM : I don't care for any other extra buffs tbh,the main thing they should do with him is Mana,reduce absolutely all the spell mana cost so it isn't a pain to use it as a lv 36.
      BM : Lowering some CD will be nice and the only solution available to make it more productive.
      Let us talk about some swordie specialist too,i never played swordie whatsoever but what do you guys think about the new Sader and Berserker ?

      Say what you feel,it's not being rude.It's being real.


    • After watching this man, I realized that nos pvp is whoever misses, loses. Especially for any swordy classes.

      The point from Bravious that now makes sense to me is Red Mages resistance decreases. After 140, most people would have enough resistance to tank so many blows from the opponent. However, the difference between 100 and 140 is significant, and RM definitely has a good chance to lower res, even with misses.

      Honestly, it's all about who hits in the end. BM can stun, but if all the stuns miss, it's really fragile to blows. RM can't stun, and is pretty much a sitting duck in this fight, but they can deal more damage than BM with their res decreases/survive longer due to mana shield. The mana issue doesn't really become a problem when after lv 93 most mages contain 20k+ mp with hella good res.

      Now that I think about it: Pvp in later levels are just bull. All our analysis with some specialists fail when ppl reach 93 due to the sudden jump in power with shells and champion levels.
    • We already had most of our specialist balance earlier on, but it's definitely nice to go back lol

      In my opinion, each class has an OP and a Low Tier sp. I mean, if I was judging these through the eyes of a lv 90+, all I can say is that any sp can be overpowered with well-made equips and good point allocation.

      I would like @Pinkamena to give me some more evaluations with archer sps though, @Bravious for mages. But if anyone has a lot of stuff with swordies, it'll be grateful.

      The niches we have with each sp (judging from without op equipment):
      Mage=
      -Red Mage: Great for anything that's water. Pretty mediocre in everything else
      -Holy Mage: The main cleric of the mmorpg. Can last well in pvp as well due to Heavenly song being annoying and healing, unless facing a seer.
      -Blue Mage: Great for anything that's fire. Wishes it had a mana shield that functions similarly to other mage classes.
      -Dark Gunner: Sucks against mobs, but really good at 1v1s (both pve and pvp). Possibly lower the chances/take out the buff relief with potion of evil, while increasing chances of buff relief in Hand of Dead.
      -Volcano: Looks so cool but it's hell without good points and equipment. You're close combat with a mage, and its mana shield isn't much better than other sp4- mana shields. Good stuns and res decreases tho.
      -Tide Lord: Seen as one of the best mage sp. It's good in pve and pvp.
      -Seer: Hated in pvp due to it's skills. Ability to survive longer, buff is very short cd, good coverage with debuffs. Eats away mp.
      -Arch Mage: Great four moves to juggle around opponent with res downs and stuns. Great with Yerti wand. Has like, 3 or 4 useless/one time niche skills though.

      Swordy=
      -Warrior: Loved from low levels and high levels as a tanker. Archer killer. Sucks against anything magic.
      -Blade: Mage killer. Eats mp. Pretty good in pvp due to good buffs, can heal hp/mp/debuffs, and block. Bad defenses without good equips tho.
      -Crusader: Can act like a cleric, but mostly used for triple/att buff and light ele. Annoying in pvp due to block and heals.
      -Berserker: Very strong with buffs and good stuns. Glass cannon. Loved(?) in pve for armour break.
      -Gladiator: A slight 'bait-and-punish' pvp mentality. Very fun with debuffs and 'block,' but not that good in pve due to war just being better.
      -Monk: Stuns and debuffs, with a great buff. Seen as one of the best swordy sps due to its usefulness in many areas.
      -Death Reaper: Built for a defensive build for pve and pvp, but loses mp like a champ. Decent debuffs and a great defense buff, but it definitely needs something to stay competitive.
      -Renegade: Very strong against dark ele, has the ability to change elements light/dark. Much more stronger as light, but having the dark element really boosts its usefulness in pvp.


      Archer=
      -Ranger: Great buffs that get eaten by wk buffs even though hawk eye is awesome. Great starting sp, but the amount of distance necessary to maximize potential is tedious to maintain.
      -Assassin: Many people hype it up, it's soooo coooool, but seriously, it's horrible in pve. Invisible nerf shattered its usage in raids, and close combat is not fun as an archer. Has potential in pvp, and every 40 seconds it becomes a god-slayer. However, relies too much in luck, and most likely sins don't survive long enough for the second critical buff.
      -Destroyer: Has good debuffs and damage multipliers. Crits and pushes. Bombs can be used strategically. However, has low range, not much damage buffs, and bombs can completely miss. Used for pvp, and is decent, but so many better sps.
      -Wild Keeper: Seen as a must-get specialist for archers, it shines in pve. Amazing damage multipliers, and amazing buffs/debuffs. Does not do well in pvp however.
      -Fire Cannoneer: Buffed up destroyer. Good stuns, great range. Unfortunately requires to be slightly close to utilize certain stuns and 'ulti.'
      -Scout: The go-to for archer pvp sps, insane range, great buffs, and amazing debuffs. Can attack while in invisi as well for 'snipes.' Low cool downs and great for 1v1, but pretty bad for pve.
      -Demon Hunter: I don't know much about it other than it's amazing in pvp. It has hp deductions and amazing debuffs, utilizing both dagger and bow.
      -Avenging Angel: Fast af. Has a diverse playstyle due to differentiating buffs. Skills are fast and low cd. Don't think it's much of a tanker however, and is outshined by wk in pve. Uses dagger, short ranged, but has "Long Ranged" skills.


      I think we already talked about balancing, but do you guys have any thoughts on which sps are TOO good?
    • Pinkamena wrote:

      HOW ? Bravious,How ?
      How do you expect the Red Mage to use inferno on the Blue Mage,when the Blue Mage has a longer range and more stuns each with a 60% + chance to apply,How ? Explain.
      Groovy Beach costume will still take away significant damage from DOT,so thats not a counter-argument.
      Does Red Mage has a passive speed bonus ? does the Inferno ability has been changed and it is no longer a skillshot ? When you press on the enemy BM does it instant inferno him ? Do you get what im saying ?
      In order to use inferno on him he must be stunned or imobilized,this is the RM main problem he have only one reliable stun that can use,and thats not enough because of Frozen Shield.
      Let's end this in a diplomatic note though,we are going off topic now.
      People belive what they want to believe,even when facts are stated and objectivity is proven,Now changes for both Sp's.
      RM : I don't care for any other extra buffs tbh,the main thing they should do with him is Mana,reduce absolutely all the spell mana cost so it isn't a pain to use it as a lv 36.
      BM : Lowering some CD will be nice and the only solution available to make it more productive.
      It's such a hard topic to let go because as a mage we deal with these sp's all the time! Yes I see the hard numbers of stuns, but in an actual PvP, there's so many more factors that can influence a PvP, and knowing how beneficial ress reduce is makes it hard to know your own experience in these specialists as its a brutal factor for a Mage SP but you said it wasn't important, when I was talking about the HP reduction I know it wont completely out do groovy, but BM has no HP per second debuff that can deal with it at all, BM's stuns aren't guarantee'd and there's tons of things that reduce its level 1 debuffs such as rep masks hippo hats which is annoying as I have used BM in PvP's myself and sometimes just none of my blackouts land causing me to use skill after skill with no hope. And as said before if you dont kill your opponent within using all your skills, your not going to be able to do much more for long periods of time, BM wont work if your not vs'ing someone with mediorce armour, not only that but again, cause there's no mana shield BM is a glass cannon, not everyone is dumb enough to hit you during your Ice Shield and neither are the skills you need to punish your opponent available if your opponent can actually withstand all your skills from 1 sweep. If we're talking soley RM vs BM, by the time 3 seconds of your Ice Shield pass, I would be able to spam skills with incredible casting times way faster than a BM can strike back, simply applying a quick combo with rm's ress reduce (fiery breath is still great even if you dont use inferno) will destroy bm because of its lack of a mana shield, the elemental damage + the fact that its fire vs water and your ress reductions with also using WDP in less than a second, nothing is protecting bm's poor defenses once that Ice Shield is off. Even before posting this I just won 3 Pvp's with 0 losses in rm, rm doesn't have the best shield and isn't that tanky but its still use-able.
      But if you want to I agree that we can let this topic go, you can believe that BM is better than RM, but I'm only taking that as your view on the topic as 2 Mages that have played for years themselves have just told you that RM is better, I wouldn't mind finding someone level 95+ to PvP me RM vs BM and we can see who wins.
    • BM is all about freezes/ stuns. This sp is not meant for pvp. That's it.

      Burns hurt especially on mages and don't just say that res reduction doesn't matter especially on high level pvps because it does.

      Ruff, you're a mage right? You should know better than this. Res reduction matters especially for mages cause it amplifies your elemental damage.

      Ruff wrote:

      Carms14 wrote:

      Mage here for who knows how long now and i must say that bm is just really bad in pvp. That shield is predictable and bm is just too squishy compared to the other mage sps. If I were to choose between rm and bm, pvp wise, I'd pick rm. As a mage, Res reduction is a must and rm has that. Rm also have damage over time debuffs which is one of the weaknesses of the sorcerer class. So if we are going to look at a high level pvp with good set/eqs and of course full res, rm will win. Bm will die from debuffs and dots. Res reduction and DoT > Stuns/ freezes for mage class.
      Not a part of BM vs RM, but in general. RM having res reduction for PvP isn't saying much in high level PvP. You can have well over 200% fire resistance, so that res reduction does absolutely nothing. The DoT is the only part that truly matters in high level PvP, and it isn't especially much for a DoT. Seer and DG are much better off in that department, and that is just sorcerer SPs
      The res reduction is quite good in low level PvP, but then most low level PvP is quite fast regardless.

      I never liked rm and so do bm but please, rm will always have the advantage when it comes to 1v1 pvps. Take the bm in fc instead cause I think that sp will be good on group pvps.

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Carms14 ().

    • Senoh23 wrote:

      -Red Mage: Great for anything that's water. Pretty mediocre in everything else
      Fire specialists are good against Dark & Water element monsters, so you could even use rm in lod as the damage is just the same as my archmage in the map. But yeah RM is great for Water monsters most importantly.

      Senoh23 wrote:

      Holy Mage: The main cleric of the mmorpg. Can last well in pvp as well due to Heavenly song being annoying and healing, unless facing a seer.
      Yeah the buffs for Holy were great, the changes made the specialist have its useless skills become useful and can actually last its own in a PvP, I've used HP builds for tanking vs classes such as warrior (Sometimes taken me over an hour to finish the fight), but is mostly suppourt and a must have sp to sometimes get into raids that require Holy's such as Sp8 raid.

      Senoh23 wrote:

      Blue Mage: Great for anything that's fire. Wishes it had a mana shield that functions similarly to other mage classes.
      I wont say too much about BM as me and Pink might go into another argument haha, but yeah it has the highest elemental damage of the water specialists for Mage class and has the most AOE's which have long cd's but isn't a problem in a PvE standpoint due to Foxy being available.

      Senoh23 wrote:

      Dark Gunner: Sucks against mobs, but really good at 1v1s (both pve and pvp). Possibly lower the chances/take out the buff relief with potion of evil, while increasing chances of buff relief in Hand of Dead.
      DG is wonderful in PvP and is one of the SP's that Entwell did right for Mage class, its very powerful for PvP and has excellent speed while leeching your opponents HP and adding it to your own, DG may be the best PvP for mage class as it covers the most possibilities when facing an opponent, but I agree that PvE wise it wont do much as it lacks aoe's,(not too bad if your just trying to kill 1 mob at a time without using heavy amounts of mana).

      Senoh23 wrote:

      -Volcano: Looks so cool but it's hell without good points and equipment. You're close combat with a mage, and its mana shield isn't much better than other sp4- mana shields. Good stuns and res decreases tho.
      Based on my personal experience, Volcano is not an easy class to use and feels quite limiting during a PvP, it relies on debuffs to do damage which must land in order to secure a win in a combo and eats alot of mana over time if you PvP a class such as a warrior or monk for ages. But overall the class still is useful in PvP as it has lower chances of your casting getting interrupted and not too bad cool downs for its first half of skills, it's also good for PvE so using Volcano or RM is really optional unless you plan to save Volc for pvp.

      Senoh23 wrote:

      Seer: Hated in pvp due to it's skills. Ability to survive longer, buff is very short cd, good coverage with debuffs. Eats away mp.
      Seer is also one of the greatest PvP specialists mage has ever had, Mind sink has an extra effect of not consuming MP from opponents damage, its final has so many low % debuffs and uses 3-4 different elements, while Time Void reduces your cool downs while increasing your opponents, not to mention Seer has the best cool downs for mage class as a whole.

      Senoh23 wrote:

      Arch Mage: Great four moves to juggle around opponent with res downs and stuns. Great with Yerti wand. Has like, 3 or 4 useless/one time niche skills though.
      Yeah AM really was a let down as its one of the final specialists that we may ever get, there's so many problems with AM that I even hate to begin with, but the class is ok for PvE and will last you for the whole of Act 6, but it just doesn't have enough attack power for PvP (I think it has the lowest attack power of all sp's in general maybe.) and its skills aren't too viable for PvP either.
    • Man,in this times i wish i would had a godd as hell BM on my new char in US server,sadly its only lv 59 and i can't even wear my bm yet,lol.
      But my first char on this game was mage,i played all 4 first sp's and caught Volc and TL too.
      The original RM was awfull,present time RM is meh to me,not too good not too bad either,still better then miles then what RM was supposed to be,i mean seriously Mana Transfusion would eat HP to gain MP.And this was the Mage first SP for GOD SAKE !
      This brings me to my 2nd point,i played all 3 classes and all 3 first sp's,Warrior was ok,the morale was op back then and still is but other then that the spells were quite strong and playing war was a unique experience,the most played and strongest sp of the Swordies is also your very first sp ? I wonder how the swordies weren't the most played class,because i sure as hell would went with it when i had that awesome sp(too bad i like remote damage).
      Ranger is also nice and strong,fastest archer sp,tons of CC,crit hits and so on,just a minor downside here,his element is water,which is hard to fight with at lower levels.
      Then finally the bottom of the pyramid,Huge Casting times,Huge Mana consumption and so on with only 2k mana at lv 36 have fun doing raids,i relieved that experience now that i did cubys with my rm when i was 36~,God it was awfull,2 basics,100 mana lost.No wonder almost nobody played mage back then.
      Anyway,lets move on then.

      Senoh23 wrote:

      We already had most of our specialist balance earlier on, but it's definitely nice to go back lol

      In my opinion, each class has an OP and a Low Tier sp. I mean, if I was judging these through the eyes of a lv 90+, all I can say is that any sp can be overpowered with well-made equips and good point allocation.

      I would like @Pinkamena to give me some more evaluations with archer sps though, @Bravious for mages. But if anyone has a lot of stuff with swordies, it'll be grateful.

      The niches we have with each sp (judging from without op equipment):
      Mage=
      -Red Mage: Great for anything that's water. Pretty mediocre in everything else
      -Holy Mage: The main cleric of the mmorpg. Can last well in pvp as well due to Heavenly song being annoying and healing, unless facing a seer.
      -Blue Mage: Great for anything that's fire. Wishes it had a mana shield that functions similarly to other mage classes.
      -Dark Gunner: Sucks against mobs, but really good at 1v1s (both pve and pvp). Possibly lower the chances/take out the buff relief with potion of evil, while increasing chances of buff relief in Hand of Dead.
      -Volcano: Looks so cool but it's hell without good points and equipment. You're close combat with a mage, and its mana shield isn't much better than other sp4- mana shields. Good stuns and res decreases tho.
      -Tide Lord: Seen as one of the best mage sp. It's good in pve and pvp.
      -Seer: Hated in pvp due to it's skills. Ability to survive longer, buff is very short cd, good coverage with debuffs. Eats away mp.
      -Arch Mage: Great four moves to juggle around opponent with res downs and stuns. Great with Yerti wand. Has like, 3 or 4 useless/one time niche skills though.

      Swordy=
      -Warrior: Loved from low levels and high levels as a tanker. Archer killer,except Ranger,who is his counter. Sucks against anything magic.OP Morale too.
      -Blade: Mage killer. Eats mp. Pretty good in pvp due to good buffs, can heal hp/mp/debuffs, and block. Bad defenses without good equips tho.
      -Crusader: Can act like a cleric, but mostly used for triple/att buff and light ele. Annoying in pvp due to block and heals.
      -Berserker: Very strong with buffs and good stuns. Glass cannon. Loved(?) in pve for armour break.
      -Gladiator: A slight 'bait-and-punish' pvp mentality. Very fun with debuffs and 'block,' but not that good in pve due to war just being better.
      -Monk: Stuns and debuffs, with a great buff. Seen as one of the best swordy sps due to its usefulness in many areas.
      -Death Reaper: Built for a defensive build for pve and pvp, but loses mp like a champ. Decent debuffs and a great defense buff, but it definitely needs something to stay competitive.
      -Renegade: Very strong against dark ele, has the ability to change elements light/dark. Much more stronger as light, but having the dark element really boosts its usefulness in pvp.


      Archer=
      -Ranger: Great buffs that get eaten by wk buffs even though hawk eye is awesome. Great starting sp, but the amount of distance necessary to maximize potential is tedious to maintain.More or less,it has high speed and some viable stuns too.
      -Assassin: Many people hype it up, it's soooo coooool, but seriously, it's horrible in pve. Invisible nerf shattered its usage in raids, and close combat is not fun as an archer. Has potential in pvp, and every 40 seconds it becomes a god-slayer. However, relies too much in luck, and most likely sins don't survive long enough for the second critical buff.More difficult to play and more luck based indeed,however an elite assasin can take even an AA.
      -Destroyer: Has good debuffs and damage multipliers. Crits and pushes. Bombs can be used strategically. However, has low range, not much damage buffs, and bombs can completely miss. Used for pvp, and is decent, but so many better sps.Ehh,not really,only the cure somewhat increase his whort.
      -Wild Keeper: Seen as a must-get specialist for archers, it shines in pve. Amazing damage multipliers, and amazing buffs/debuffs. Does not do well in pvp however.
      -Fire Cannoneer: Buffed up destroyer. Good stuns, great range. Unfortunately requires to be slightly close to utilize certain stuns and 'ulti.This was my favourite sp when i played archer,i just loved how i could switch from remote to close combat,the ammount of CC this sp has,the effect that it can teleport and can launch on enemy to ulty him,it also has 3 buffs in 1 and can upgrade some of his skills using them,it isn't as a direct remote attacker like a Scout but there are so many combination possibile and definetly i recommand it for anyone who wanna play as an archer.
      -Scout: The go-to for archer pvp sps, insane range, great buffs,Not so amazing debuffs though,Scout main damage comes from bursty damage ,ulty+reload. Can attack while in invisi as well for 'snipes.' Low cool downs and great for 1v1, but pretty bad for pve.
      -Demon Hunter: I don't know much about it other than it's amazing in pvp. It has hp deductions and amazing debuffs, utilizing both dagger and bow.You know i never got why anyone liked Demon Hunter tbh,i played and can't say i like it,definetly dosen't shine on CC part,his DoT's are great though,some spells,mostly involving his sword are funny and usseles.
      -Avenging Angel: Fast af. Has a diverse playstyle due to differentiating buffs. Skills are fast and low cd. Don't think it's much of a tanker however, and is outshined by wk in pve. Uses dagger, short ranged, but has "Long Ranged" skills.This sp has 4 different playstyles depending what element the opponent is,the rotation remains the same though as only 1 buff change and give a different spell depending on the enemy fairy,sounds awesome in theory but in practice is...meh,on UK not many played AA.


      I think we already talked about balancing, but do you guys have any thoughts on which sps are TOO good?

      Say what you feel,it's not being rude.It's being real.

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Pinkamena ().

    • Carms14 wrote:

      BM is all about freezes/ stuns. This sp is not meant for pvp. That's it.

      Burns hurt especially on mages and don't just say that res reduction doesn't matter especially on high level pvps because it does.

      Ruff, you're a mage right? You should know better than this. Res reduction matters especially for mages cause it amplifies your elemental damage.

      Ruff wrote:

      Carms14 wrote:

      Mage here for who knows how long now and i must say that bm is just really bad in pvp. That shield is predictable and bm is just too squishy compared to the other mage sps. If I were to choose between rm and bm, pvp wise, I'd pick rm. As a mage, Res reduction is a must and rm has that. Rm also have damage over time debuffs which is one of the weaknesses of the sorcerer class. So if we are going to look at a high level pvp with good set/eqs and of course full res, rm will win. Bm will die from debuffs and dots. Res reduction and DoT > Stuns/ freezes for mage class.
      Not a part of BM vs RM, but in general. RM having res reduction for PvP isn't saying much in high level PvP. You can have well over 200% fire resistance, so that res reduction does absolutely nothing. The DoT is the only part that truly matters in high level PvP, and it isn't especially much for a DoT. Seer and DG are much better off in that department, and that is just sorcerer SPsThe res reduction is quite good in low level PvP, but then most low level PvP is quite fast regardless.
      I never liked rm and so do bm but please, rm will always have the advantage when it comes to 1v1 pvps. Take the bm in fc instead cause I think that sp will be good on group pvps.
      Yes I am a mage, and typically I would agree that the res reduction is powerful. However, specifically for high level PvP, I believe you can have over 300% fire res? So... I mean at that point it is just getting really hard for the debuff to matter outside the DoT. Don't get me wrong, in a typical PvP it is great. But for those specific opponents.... Mages in general just have a hard time.
    • There is no balanced or non balanced SP.
      For me, it's all depends on Shells !

      Swordie :
      Warrior = basically strong enough to tank everything.
      Monk = Duh? Still have to say it? Its the main core SP. Paired with Lv 90 fake sword, nuff said.
      Rest of the SP = U may skip them. Can get Zerk for Act 6 tho.

      Archer :
      Ranger : Yes ! Best SP for me ! Even in PVP. Buff = insane improvement. Debuff ? Kidding me. Every skills can debuff you. Crit is so insane. Headshot skill is just too broken. Train this SP well and practice make perfect. U can take down almost all the SP basically.
      Sin : Yes this SP is fun to play around.
      Des : Come on, this is the most important SP for raid. If everyone skip this, imagine no Des in Glace, kertos, greni, etc. U gonna have 1 hour Grenigas lol.
      WK : Another broken SP, All skills ARE AOE. Basically 1 sp can mob PVE all the way till act 6. Come on. Taking lod with full ele wk is so broken, 1 -3 skills clear full wave mob lures.
      CS : FC type of SP due to long range. And for Glace ? Nah, I love my Des more in Glace, lol.
      Scout : Yes good SP. Good for cheaper, ganker in arena. For Draco, yes is useful. PVE else where, seldom use. But not my liking type of SP. I prefer ranger anytime than Scout.
      DH : A good SP. esp in Light raid. If u dont have a good sin, get this SP. Even a +9 DH works wonder.
      AA : Glass Cannon. High dmg output, die fast as well.

      Mage :
      Holy = Best healer SP and support class
      TL = Mage version of WK. Everything you need. Core SP for PVE. PVP wise, nah, go for Volcano
      Volcano = Yes this is one good aggressive SP. Time your combo nicely. You can rules in PVP.
      AM = Yes u got full heal, but CD so long?
      Seer = Maybe good for low tier pvp or poorly shelled eq. But at a higher tier pvp, no chance come close to Volcano imo. Yes I am archer and i cant find any good Seer around compare to the volcano that I met.

      Just my opinion.


      IGN : cuti3 (inactive) cuti4 (active) Fam : Insomnia > Heavenly > Mysterious > Shinobi > FallenHeroes > Now : SHINOBI
    • Hello, I just created an account in forum because I wanted to discuss this.
      As some people that know me are informed that I'm main swordman user, I would like to give my suggestions about these SPs, and then include some of the other classes SPs I have tested my own on my alternative characters.


      1) Warrior: Right now warrior is one of the strongest and most overused SPs by swordmen, and it has a reason. It is a tank and most of raids requiere a tank. It has one of the most important buffs over the game, wich is morale, but, what are it's weaknesses?
      Main problem with warrior is the lack of attack skills and the change that Skin Like Iron received, plus having a skill almost useless in higher levels and PVP (shout).


      Iron Skin: Change the way it works. The cooldown reduction is nice but right now annoying to be casting every 30 seconds, it wastes a turn to attack and in PVP might get you killed. In higher levels you won't lure/kill mobs before 30 seconds, and with just 3 area attacks (including Rising Dragon wich has really small area) the cooldown reduction becomes a bit useless.

      I purpose to remove the cooldown reduction, but make the buff last longer (1 minute and 30 seconds), and adding a secondary effect that in the last 30 seconds gives +1 movement speed. // DECREASE LONG AND MEELEE DMG REDUCTION TO 20/25% respectively.


      Shout Fear: Replace current effect wich is mostly useless and the main use is to troll on IC. First of all, the area should be the same as provoke. Also cooldown should be reduced from 120s to 45s.


      New effect: 3 different options, depending on the level difference between caster and enemy.

      • Effect 1: If enemy is more than 5 levels lower than caster, immobilizes the enemy for 4s and 60% to make it unable to attack for 5s. Bad effect level 5.
      • Effect 2: 5 levels below and 5 levels above caster range, reduce enemy speed by 60% and attack by 50% for 4s. Bad Effect level 4.
      • Effect 3: If enemy is more than 5 levels over caster: Reduce movement speed and attack by 30% for 3s. Bad effect level 3.
      **Note** All these debuff can be removed by morale shout equal or over the debuffer level.



      2) Crusader: It's main problem is the lack of attacks, being slow, bad areas (only it's ultimate attack is good) and an almost useless skill (Grow Shield).
      The changes I suggest are basically to make it easier to use and having more effective area attacks, helping for PVP and PVE.

      Triple Bolt and Holy Cross: Basically their area is just weird and too hard to manage to be effective area attacks.
      I suggest to change the mechanic to something similar to SP6 attacks (you press the hotkey button then a circle appears and once you click it's casted. Not a target attack).


      Triple Bolt: Reduce Cooldown to 20s and change the area of effect as the image below.

      ibb.co/kvk6kw

      Holy Cross: Change the area of effect to the image below.

      ibb.co/i4Zz5w

      Concentrate:

      Make it work just as TideLord last skill instead of being a target skill. It takes too long to be casted and usually enemies predict it and move away to uncast, OR the target is killed and the skill is cancelled.


      Pray of Defense: It is always replaced by WK Bear making us lose the +1 def level it gives. Remove the 15% extra HP and replace with 30% reduction of received critical damage, that way making unable to be replaced by Bear Buff.

      Pray of Ofense and Defense: Increase Cooldown but also buff duration to 240 seconds.

      Grow Shield: Change the way it works. Since Crusader has no provoke, and can't move while using this skill, it becomes absolutelly useless. I suggest to change the effect to a buff with 10% chance of healing 10% of the received damage. (Or other values since it has to be tested and don't know if these values I suggest are accurate).

      Shining Effect: Due to the existance of Holy Mage, this healing becomes really useless. I purpose to change the effect to a buff that reduce the change of receiving bad effects for 30 seconds. This could be a self and/or target skill (just as triple charge). This would make crusader a really useful supportive SP, wich can give this buff to lurers or tankers, and can triple charge the main attackers, but also would be able to use on himself together with the new Grow Shield purposed to become a secondary lurer/tanker.



      3) Destroyer: The only non-swordmen SP I will suggest changes.

      Problems with destroyer are clear. It's not it's damage nor speed. It's his skills being too easy to predict and evade, plus really long casting times, making it just a gas dealer for raids.


      Claymore: Make/Replace it as a throwable grenade(s) with bigger area of explosion, causing 50% bad effect Acoustic Trauma (Lvl 3 bad effect, 4s duration, moves in opposite direction).

      Health Pack: Change for Stim Pack. Remove debuff lvl 3 or below, and ignore level 3 or below debuff for 10s. (Only self casting now tho).

      Boom Shoot: Increase area of effect to 3 cells around target instead of 1.

      Fire Mine: Make it follow target instead of going to random enemies. Increase area of explosion.

      Hell Drop: Make it work as Tide Lord last skill (circle in the floor instead of target). Reduce Casting time from 1.2s to 0.6s

      The post was edited 6 times, last by Makarno ().

    • Disclaimer : I'm not comparing RM to BM
      I tested some PvP's in BM and I have come to the conclusion that the most prevalent problems is the cool downs and BM's speed, I believe bm should have at least +1 speed and its cool downs further reduced, OR a more intresting solution would be to have the Fairy Wing effect as a buff, my Bm has fairy wings and I used the 10% reset skill skin which gave me a total of 17%, this was enough to last longer than I would ever before in BM as I could get skills I needed back more often, therefore having some sort of buff that resets bm's skills would ohnestly be great. BM's defense still is very poor so some changes to his cool downs or a reset chance would be great.
      During my PvP's I was able to survive as long as I could use a good amount of stun skills due to my resets and keeping away from the enemy while hopefully landing the -3 speed debuff, but once I had nothing available I could barely survive 5 hits.
      So +1 Speed and a 10% chance of resetting skills as a buff would be phenomenal for the class.
    • Cuti3 wrote:

      There is no balanced or non balanced SP.
      For me, it's all depends on Shells !
      True.

      Cuti3 wrote:

      Archer :
      Ranger : Yes ! Best SP for me ! Even in PVP. Buff = insane improvement. Debuff ? Kidding me. Every skills can debuff you. Crit is so insane. Headshot skill is just too broken. Train this SP well and practice make perfect. U can take down almost all the SP basically.
      More or less,debuffs have low %,and you must be comfortable running from your opponent 24/7.

      Cuti3 wrote:

      Des : Come on, this is the most important SP for raid. If everyone skip this, imagine no Des in Glace, kertos, greni, etc. U gonna have 1 hour Grenigas lol.
      CS : FC type of SP due to long range. And for Glace ? Nah, I love my Des more in Glace, lol.
      Bs.

      Cuti3 wrote:

      Scout : Yes good SP. Good for cheaper, ganker in arena.
      Really.

      Cuti3 wrote:

      Mage :
      Holy = Best healer SP and support class
      The Only healer SP acttualy,unless you consider Healing over 10 minutes SP whort mentioning.

      Cuti3 wrote:

      TL = Mage version of WK. Everything you need. Core SP for PVE. PVP wise, nah, go for Volcano
      Volcano = Yes this is one good aggressive SP. Time your combo nicely. You can rules in PVP.
      Once again Bs.
      TL can whoop Volcano ass if played propely,and many other sp's too.

      Cuti3 wrote:

      Seer = Maybe good for low tier pvp or poorly shelled eq. But at a higher tier pvp, no chance come close to Volcano imo. Yes I am archer and i cant find any good Seer around compare to the volcano that I met.
      Most of my time i was archer too,and i find more difficult to fight a Seer instead of a Volc,i killed Volcano's with WK acttualy,this is maybe because Volcano is the most played Mage sp.

      Say what you feel,it's not being rude.It's being real.

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Pinkamena ().

    • Pinkamena wrote:

      Cuti3 wrote:

      There is no balanced or non balanced SP.
      For me, it's all depends on Shells !
      True.

      Cuti3 wrote:

      Archer :
      Ranger : Yes ! Best SP for me ! Even in PVP. Buff = insane improvement. Debuff ? Kidding me. Every skills can debuff you. Crit is so insane. Headshot skill is just too broken. Train this SP well and practice make perfect. U can take down almost all the SP basically.
      More or less,debuffs have low %,and you must be comfortable running from your opponent 24/7.

      Cuti3 wrote:

      Des : Come on, this is the most important SP for raid. If everyone skip this, imagine no Des in Glace, kertos, greni, etc. U gonna have 1 hour Grenigas lol.
      CS : FC type of SP due to long range. And for Glace ? Nah, I love my Des more in Glace, lol.
      Bs.

      Cuti3 wrote:

      Scout : Yes good SP. Good for cheaper, ganker in arena.
      Really.

      Cuti3 wrote:

      Mage :
      Holy = Best healer SP and support class
      The Only healer SP acttualy,unless you consider Healing over 10 minutes SP whort mentioning.

      Cuti3 wrote:

      TL = Mage version of WK. Everything you need. Core SP for PVE. PVP wise, nah, go for Volcano
      Volcano = Yes this is one good aggressive SP. Time your combo nicely. You can rules in PVP.
      Once again Bs.TL can whoop Volcano ass if played propely,and many other sp's too.

      Cuti3 wrote:

      Seer = Maybe good for low tier pvp or poorly shelled eq. But at a higher tier pvp, no chance come close to Volcano imo. Yes I am archer and i cant find any good Seer around compare to the volcano that I met.
      Most of my time i was archer too,and i find more difficult to fight a Seer instead of a Volc,i killed Volcano's with WK acttualy,this is maybe because Volcano is the most played Mage sp.

      Bs.
      Proof me wrong then. Let's see a best raid spam for kertos, vala, greni need 2 des. And also even act 6 raid u need a des there. Only high lvl raid doesnt need des is Laurena raid. So the usefulness of Des in raid is 10x > CS,

      Once again Bs.TL can whoop Volcano ass if played propely,and many other sp's too.
      The right shell with right combo from volcano can hit u super painful. And look at the total res reduce by volcano = insane. Maybe so far, I have not come across a good TL or really pro TL then, mentioning R7 user + 15 TL. Volcano has more offensive skill and debuff than TL tbh.

      Most of my time i was archer too,and i find more difficult to fight a Seer instead of a Volc,i killed Volcano's with WK acttualy,this is maybe because Volcano is the most played Mage sp.
      Maybe I havent meet a good seer? So far the only SP troubled me is Volcano. And yes I am speaking about those OP 92/93 or 95/96 eq user, not for those middle tier type of pvp.


      IGN : cuti3 (inactive) cuti4 (active) Fam : Insomnia > Heavenly > Mysterious > Shinobi > FallenHeroes > Now : SHINOBI
    • Cuti3 wrote:

      Pinkamena wrote:

      Cuti3 wrote:

      There is no balanced or non balanced SP.
      For me, it's all depends on Shells !
      True.

      Cuti3 wrote:

      Archer :
      Ranger : Yes ! Best SP for me ! Even in PVP. Buff = insane improvement. Debuff ? Kidding me. Every skills can debuff you. Crit is so insane. Headshot skill is just too broken. Train this SP well and practice make perfect. U can take down almost all the SP basically.
      More or less,debuffs have low %,and you must be comfortable running from your opponent 24/7.

      Cuti3 wrote:

      Des : Come on, this is the most important SP for raid. If everyone skip this, imagine no Des in Glace, kertos, greni, etc. U gonna have 1 hour Grenigas lol.
      CS : FC type of SP due to long range. And for Glace ? Nah, I love my Des more in Glace, lol.
      Bs.

      Cuti3 wrote:

      Scout : Yes good SP. Good for cheaper, ganker in arena.
      Really.

      Cuti3 wrote:

      Mage :
      Holy = Best healer SP and support class
      The Only healer SP acttualy,unless you consider Healing over 10 minutes SP whort mentioning.

      Cuti3 wrote:

      TL = Mage version of WK. Everything you need. Core SP for PVE. PVP wise, nah, go for Volcano
      Volcano = Yes this is one good aggressive SP. Time your combo nicely. You can rules in PVP.
      Once again Bs.TL can whoop Volcano ass if played propely,and many other sp's too.

      Cuti3 wrote:

      Seer = Maybe good for low tier pvp or poorly shelled eq. But at a higher tier pvp, no chance come close to Volcano imo. Yes I am archer and i cant find any good Seer around compare to the volcano that I met.
      Most of my time i was archer too,and i find more difficult to fight a Seer instead of a Volc,i killed Volcano's with WK acttualy,this is maybe because Volcano is the most played Mage sp.
      Bs.
      Proof me wrong then. Let's see a best raid spam for kertos, vala, greni need 2 des. And also even act 6 raid u need a des there. Only high lvl raid doesnt need des is Laurena raid. So the usefulness of Des in raid is 10x > CS,

      Once again Bs.TL can whoop Volcano ass if played propely,and many other sp's too.
      The right shell with right combo from volcano can hit u super painful. And look at the total res reduce by volcano = insane. Maybe so far, I have not come across a good TL or really pro TL then, mentioning R7 user + 15 TL. Volcano has more offensive skill and debuff than TL tbh.

      Most of my time i was archer too,and i find more difficult to fight a Seer instead of a Volc,i killed Volcano's with WK acttualy,this is maybe because Volcano is the most played Mage sp.
      Maybe I havent meet a good seer? So far the only SP troubled me is Volcano. And yes I am speaking about those OP 92/93 or 95/96 eq user, not for those middle tier type of pvp.
      To be fair, while you can't really count on it, Tide Lord can completely eliminate an opponents mana. If Volcano gets hit with that he can't even fight back.
    • Comparing one ussefull spell of a single destroyer with the higher damage/better aoe's and the CS ability to reach the safe zone faster via teleport of like 8 CS,talking about Glacerus only because there you mentioned his superiority,doing a glacerus raid with only des,will it be possible,sure but it will be hell alot longer w/o any CS.
      Destroyer,Sader and Zerker they are ussualy only one of them in raids because of one certain ability they have,maybe thats your ideea of a pve sp,who knows.
      As for TL beating Volc,beside what Ruff said already about his total mana anihilation,i'd like to add what you said about shells,in conclusion any sp can beat any sp with the right shells,eqp's and so on.

      Say what you feel,it's not being rude.It's being real.
    • Cuti3 wrote:

      Pinkamena wrote:

      Cuti3 wrote:

      There is no balanced or non balanced SP.
      For me, it's all depends on Shells !
      True.

      Cuti3 wrote:

      Archer :
      Ranger : Yes ! Best SP for me ! Even in PVP. Buff = insane improvement. Debuff ? Kidding me. Every skills can debuff you. Crit is so insane. Headshot skill is just too broken. Train this SP well and practice make perfect. U can take down almost all the SP basically.
      More or less,debuffs have low %,and you must be comfortable running from your opponent 24/7.

      Cuti3 wrote:

      Des : Come on, this is the most important SP for raid. If everyone skip this, imagine no Des in Glace, kertos, greni, etc. U gonna have 1 hour Grenigas lol.
      CS : FC type of SP due to long range. And for Glace ? Nah, I love my Des more in Glace, lol.
      Bs.

      Cuti3 wrote:

      Scout : Yes good SP. Good for cheaper, ganker in arena.
      Really.

      Cuti3 wrote:

      Mage :
      Holy = Best healer SP and support class
      The Only healer SP acttualy,unless you consider Healing over 10 minutes SP whort mentioning.

      Cuti3 wrote:

      TL = Mage version of WK. Everything you need. Core SP for PVE. PVP wise, nah, go for Volcano
      Volcano = Yes this is one good aggressive SP. Time your combo nicely. You can rules in PVP.
      Once again Bs.TL can whoop Volcano ass if played propely,and many other sp's too.

      Cuti3 wrote:

      Seer = Maybe good for low tier pvp or poorly shelled eq. But at a higher tier pvp, no chance come close to Volcano imo. Yes I am archer and i cant find any good Seer around compare to the volcano that I met.
      Most of my time i was archer too,and i find more difficult to fight a Seer instead of a Volc,i killed Volcano's with WK acttualy,this is maybe because Volcano is the most played Mage sp.
      Bs.
      Proof me wrong then. Let's see a best raid spam for kertos, vala, greni need 2 des. And also even act 6 raid u need a des there. Only high lvl raid doesnt need des is Laurena raid. So the usefulness of Des in raid is 10x > CS,

      Once again Bs.TL can whoop Volcano ass if played propely,and many other sp's too.
      The right shell with right combo from volcano can hit u super painful. And look at the total res reduce by volcano = insane. Maybe so far, I have not come across a good TL or really pro TL then, mentioning R7 user + 15 TL. Volcano has more offensive skill and debuff than TL tbh.

      Most of my time i was archer too,and i find more difficult to fight a Seer instead of a Volc,i killed Volcano's with WK acttualy,this is maybe because Volcano is the most played Mage sp.
      Maybe I havent meet a good seer? So far the only SP troubled me is Volcano. And yes I am speaking about those OP 92/93 or 95/96 eq user, not for those middle tier type of pvp.
      Cuti, if you are going to say Destroyer is well balanced just because people need 1 in many raids, then you don't understand at all what balance is.
      It isn't okay if you need to wear destroyer just to use 1 skill (gas) and the rest becomes useless. People are making use of gas, not of destroyer, and that can actually show us how unbalanced it is. The only pro destroyers I've seen are some +15 with perf +50 from OP ppl in other servers with stupid insane shells, and they would actually do better with a CS or Scout +9 and perf +20.

      Destroyer IS wrong balanced, because has lack of AOE, casting times are stupidly high, it's attacks lack of strategy (despite of gas), and has 2 skills that are almost impossible to land properly (claymore and spider mines).
    • Something to add on with the mentality above is that, while having a destroyer is pretty useful with its great debuff, it isn't necessary most of the time. As long you have good dps, you don't really require the debuff to win the raids. Outside of that, destroyer can definitely be used, but there isn't much of a reason to use dest when there is obviously a superior version (FC) of it.

      In terms of mage PVP, Volcano is definitely a scary competitor, but Seers are merciless. Incredible debuffs that shatter the opponents defenses and increase their cool downs. Survivability and insane range, with a very unique ulti. Tide Lord is versus Volcano or any sp is rather a toss up on if the Tide Lord survives long enough to set up the debuffs/mp decrease. However, due to the defensive prowess of Tide Lord, I'll say it's definitely the better of the two. Doesn't mean volcano isn't a threat though, it's still good in pvp due to stuns and res decreases.

      Just to note, the whole Tide Lord and Volc matchup shouldn't be based on the mp decrease if thinking about all the shells and such...
      The chances of getting to the third stage is REALLY low, and with misses (in shells), it's literally a "pray and hope it works" moment.